How to Avoid DM Burnout Continued

weyland]: 00:00:02

Hello, and welcome to how to be a better. M. I'm Tanner Wayland and I have my wonderful friend and compatriot

weyland]: 00:00:08

Justin Lewis here with me. Hey, Justin.

[justin]: 00:00:11

Either as a gong, Tanner,

weyland]: 00:00:12

Oh, it's going so well, beautiful morning. Excited to talk with

[justin]: 00:00:15

Yeah,

weyland]: 00:00:15

you about how to be better. D. M, M. honestly, I'm excited for today's kind of topic. We actually addressed

weyland]: 00:00:24

it a little bit like half a month ago or so. about being excited as a D. M. The topic today is a little bit

weyland]: 00:00:31

more specie, Though it's about burn out. I think we've all been there right like you're. You set up a time with

weyland]: 00:00:38

some friends regularly, like weekly or by weekly, or who knows what, Right and then you're just planning week after

weyland]: 00:00:46

week and then you suddenly realize Wait, It's not fun anymore. And not only is it enough fun, I'm dreading

weyland]: 00:00:52

it each time. right. Classic symptoms for being burned out. And so that's what we're gonna talk about is how

weyland]: 00:00:58

to deal with that first of Justin. Have you ever felt burned Out on anything or deming

[justin]: 00:01:05

Ah, yeah, yeah. I mean running a podcast. I mean, I felt burnt out a few times with doing this podcast and then my

[justin]: 00:01:16

previous podcast, Um, running sessions as a d. M. Also the same thing. There is also the same thing. It's interesting

[justin]: 00:01:29

because you know this episode is kind of the second or the first half of a two part episode where we talk about dem

[justin]: 00:01:35

boredom and how they're both kind of two sides of the same coin for losing excitement as a d. M, and in kind of comparing,

[justin]: 00:01:45

burn out to, you know, burn out with running a podcast or burn out with work. You know, I think part of it is Ou, have

[justin]: 00:01:55

this certain expectation and you go a prolonged period of time without reaching that expectation. You know.

weyland]: 00:02:03

M. Yeah, it's like it's like you're expecting some type of return essentially, but

[justin]: 00:02:11

M.

weyland]: 00:02:11

your output is so much that you're like. Well, I'm not getting that return and I only did this

[justin]: 00:02:16

Yeah,

weyland]: 00:02:16

output of effort with the idea that I had get that kind of return of enjoyment or fun or having a good time

weyland]: 00:02:22

or

[justin]: 00:02:22

Hm,

weyland]: 00:02:22

whatever, right. Um, and I think that that's that's a real issue. You know, when you're doing a lot and you're

weyland]: 00:02:31

not getting enough in return, and that I think that you know deming is actually so ripe is maybe the wrong word.

weyland]: 00:02:40

but it's so prone to this because of the amount of effort takes. T put in because it's like. I mean, this whole

weyland]: 00:02:47

podcast is based on the idea that like hey, if you want to do more than you can and you'll have a better

weyland]: 00:02:53

ou know deming experience or do differently, At least right, and some people take that as being like, Oh,

weyland]: 00:02:59

I've got to put in more and more effort and then you know, and then before I know at, they're burned out,

weyland]: 00:03:04

right M.

[justin]: 00:03:06

Yeah,

weyland]: 00:03:07

And so that's why we got to talk about some tips. I think that if you're feeling burned out, then the first

weyland]: 00:03:14

kind of category of help that you need is first. just get help from others you know. Um, like for example, taking

weyland]: 00:03:24

a small break. You know we're gonna talk about later, but taking a full break is always an option, but at the

weyland]: 00:03:30

very least you could take a small break and be like Hey, Jimmy, you're in my group. I bet you've always wanted

weyland]: 00:03:36

to do. and even if you haven't, could you please Dan, for like, small little side adventure for a few sessions,

weyland]: 00:03:44

you know, like a month or two or something. And guess what I think most people would be willing to help you

weyland]: 00:03:49

out with that. They just need a little bit of time to prepare, and then you can have that break that you've

weyland]: 00:03:54

kind of been looking for, you know.

[justin]: 00:03:57

Yeah, actually, that tip. you just spark something inside of me. That tip is, I think possibly a really good tip as well

[justin]: 00:04:06

for player management. Maybe so.

weyland]: 00:04:09

Yeah,

[justin]: 00:04:09

if you have players who maybe are a little bit rambunctious. Um, and I think it might be best for me to explain my situation,

[justin]: 00:04:19

so I have seven players at the table

weyland]: 00:04:22

That's a lot.

[justin]: 00:04:23

recently. Yeah, it is a lot Recently. I've noticed this friend of I'm working with these people who are kind of right

[justin]: 00:04:32

in front of me, because our table is really long, right and

weyland]: 00:04:35

Hm,

[justin]: 00:04:36

I sit on one side, so I'm working with people on one side of me and then people in the back. They're kind of having

[justin]: 00:04:42

their own conversation and it goes pretty off the rails gets loud and stuff.

weyland]: 00:04:47

Yeah,

[justin]: 00:04:47

Um, so add that to the fact that we just got into water deep like they just reached water deep. This is the first time

[justin]: 00:04:55

in the in

weyland]: 00:04:55

Hm,

[justin]: 00:04:55

the campaign that they're In a big city. So what you just spark this idea in me is? I'm actually going to say Hey,

[justin]: 00:05:04

guys, we are in a big city now, and just like happens in a lot of T V shows. You know, I'm thinking about Avatar. Big

[justin]: 00:05:11

cities often

weyland]: 00:05:12

Yep,

[justin]: 00:05:12

have like side quests or many episodes or things like that. Right.

weyland]: 00:05:16

Exactly

[justin]: 00:05:17

So I think what I'm going to do is I'm going to ask each of them and I'm gonna say Hey, What? Each of you prepare

[justin]: 00:05:22

a session or like a side quest inside the city right? It doesn't have to be. In fact. I'd probably prefer not to touch

[justin]: 00:05:31

on the main campaign, but just some sort of side quest that everyone can participate in and have fun, and you know stuff

[justin]: 00:05:37

like that, so I think that particular tip asking the players to sub in, I think that is really valuable for many many

[justin]: 00:05:48

reasons.

weyland]: 00:05:49

Yeah. absolutely. that's That's kind of the gold of the matter and I found this out in a lot of my life and

weyland]: 00:05:56

it's not only true for burn out, but if you're having issues asking for help, it's a huge thing. like my wife

weyland]: 00:06:02

did really well with asking her professors for help in college. That's something I didn't do

[justin]: 00:06:08

Hm,

weyland]: 00:06:08

as well, and I think she really benefited in ways that I could have you know, and it's true

[justin]: 00:06:13

Yeah,

weyland]: 00:06:13

for deming to, because it's like Hey, if you're feeling burned out or if you're feeling like Hey, we need to

weyland]: 00:06:18

shake things, Asking others to sit in the D M chair for a bit. That's that's great, and even if you like,

weyland]: 00:06:25

are teaching them a bit about deming. You know, with all the tips you've gotten from our podcast and

[justin]: 00:06:31

Yeah,

weyland]: 00:06:31

everything else, then, then teaching someone else is always a good way to kind of fresh, freshen up your own

weyland]: 00:06:39

approach to. you know,

[justin]: 00:06:41

Yeah,

weyland]: 00:06:41

Um

[justin]: 00:06:42

yeah, I'd also add

weyland]: 00:06:43

and please,

[justin]: 00:06:45

just real quick. you know, you don't have to wait till you're feeling burnt out to ask for help. In fact, it's probably

[justin]: 00:06:52

better to ask before these symptoms set in, so that way you can kind of maintain your energy. Calm down. take a break.

[justin]: 00:07:02

Allow someone else to step in, or you know, share your excitement with them and allow them to kind of reflect it back

[justin]: 00:07:08

on you. kind of this positive loop. So if you're starting to feel like the very beginnings of d n burn out, that's when

[justin]: 00:07:16

you need to ask for help rather than when you're pulling your hair out and you don't want to play d n d anymore.

weyland]: 00:07:21

Exactly that's I think that's super important because if we you know, I like to turn, burn out. the term burn

weyland]: 00:07:28

out because it kind of in my mind it makes me think of like a car or a machine that like is just being run

weyland]: 00:07:34

and run and run, and like, pedal to the metal for so long and it's not being service, is not taking a break.

weyland]: 00:07:41

It's not doing any of these things that will make it so that it doesn't burn out. And then, even if it does,

weyland]: 00:07:48

and then once it starts like smelling Of smoke. If you bring it in then it's like Well, you're looking for much

weyland]: 00:07:55

longer repair time, you know, so it's just better to you know, Take these breaks change things up. Get help a long

weyland]: 00:08:02

the way, and then hopefully you'll never actually need you know to take a really big break. right,

[justin]: 00:08:11

Yeah,

weyland]: 00:08:12

Um,

[justin]: 00:08:12

that's an excellent analogy.

weyland]: 00:08:14

Yeah, and in terms of getting help, I think you can also get help from other dims on the Internet right,

weyland]: 00:08:20

like if you're if you're writing your own content a lot, or if you're doing a huge campaign, The kind of that gives

weyland]: 00:08:27

you a lot of info. But you kind of need to direct. You need to know everything, direct the every little thing and

weyland]: 00:08:35

set up events. Then that might be kind of frustrating or or not of frustrating. but just more like a bigger load for

weyland]: 00:08:42

you. And so I wil Really recommend you now looking online, like on on the D, Ms. Guild or elsewhere, for like, little

weyland]: 00:08:50

one shots or multi session campaigns, Kind of like what you're talking about with your players, but like

[justin]: 00:08:57

Hm,

weyland]: 00:08:58

looking on line like if you still want a dam and none of your players, you know they've already played. You

weyland]: 00:09:03

know dem themselves. You can always look online for for content that other people have written very well, very

weyland]: 00:09:10

concisely, so that you don't need to, you know, pull your hair out when When running a session, you know,

[justin]: 00:09:17

Yeah, and there's nothing wrong with unless, unless you're doing a paid game, there's nothing wrong with stealing

[justin]: 00:09:27

I P from movies, T vs and T V shows and books. Like you know, if you can't think of what to do, then have your players

[justin]: 00:09:35

enter a town called Growspicely, where they may. they meet a young farm boy named Buke who has these special abilities

[justin]: 00:09:43

and he needs to join the Uhbrosmillian, You know, Like Whatever it is like,

weyland]: 00:09:47

Yeah, yeah,

[justin]: 00:09:48

your players are gonna laugh because they're goin t be like. Oh, that's the. that's the thing from that one thing,

[justin]: 00:09:53

and

weyland]: 00:09:53

Yes,

[justin]: 00:09:53

they are just going to enjoy it and you'll save yourself some time.

weyland]: 00:09:57

Exactly, you know. There's there's no problem when you're just having a friend's game, and it's supposed to

weyland]: 00:10:02

be first and foremost, fun. and any trick that you have to make your time easier. That's worth it right.

[justin]: 00:10:09

Yeah, and I would

weyland]: 00:10:09

Yeah,

[justin]: 00:10:09

even say it might even be cool to have them see like Oh, Harry Potter is going to fight Smeagle for some reason. like,

[justin]: 00:10:16

Who knows? I don't know. you know.

weyland]: 00:10:18

Exactly. you know. I know you are all creative people, but you're also people who sometimes need a change up.

weyland]: 00:10:25

and

[justin]: 00:10:26

Hm.

weyland]: 00:10:26

and that will help you avoid burn out also, if you're ever like. Because a big part of this tip is you know,

weyland]: 00:10:34

taking some load off yourself. I think that when I prepare sessions, there are certain issues either with

weyland]: 00:10:40

my players or with the campaign itself Where I'm like, I want to make this good, but I don't know how. And

weyland]: 00:10:46

so I spend forever Doing and stowing, And then only sometimes does it come out to be a really good answer. The

weyland]: 00:10:53

other times it's just an okay answer. And then I still am thinking about it all the time. If you, if you have

weyland]: 00:10:59

certain online communities, like, read it, or some other places where you can ask for advice. Having a third

weyland]: 00:11:07

party, You know, perspective, and outside our view point. A lot of times they can provide great advice for

weyland]: 00:11:14

an issue that you thought was super hard. but then they, with their experienc, They're like, Oh yeah, just

weyland]: 00:11:19

do this and then that's help as well, right,

[justin]: 00:11:23

Yeah, I actually have two examples of this. So one? I don't know if you remember Tanner, but I was preparing my one

[justin]: 00:11:30

shot, escaped from Hum Grit prison And it's

weyland]: 00:11:33

Yes,

[justin]: 00:11:33

it's kind of this like prison escaped one shot, you know, and I was struggling with it because I was like. Yeah,

[justin]: 00:11:40

Does this make sense? You know, When I sent it to Tanner, he asked one question. I don't remember what it was, but like

[justin]: 00:11:46

simplified the process and stream lined the whole story line. It. It was extremely helpful because I think My issue was

[justin]: 00:11:54

I was like, Okay, I'm going to have the players come in the prison and then like they have to like, kind of get a

[justin]: 00:12:00

sense for how things work in the prison, and then something external happens that allows them to have this opportunity to

[justin]: 00:12:06

escape And I think the question you post was like something along the lines of Why do they need to like know about the prison?

[justin]: 00:12:13

You know like, and I was like, Oh, my gosh, it just took this whole chunk out that I didn't need, and in doing the

[justin]: 00:12:20

one shot, you know lately it's made A lot better, and my second example is actually just like yesterday. In the last

[justin]: 00:12:27

few days, a buddy mind, he has been working on this home brew world, which is super super fascinating. I would share

[justin]: 00:12:33

it, but like I don't want to spoil his, because he's actually thinking about putting it up on Dem's gilt,

weyland]: 00:12:38

Oh nice.

[justin]: 00:12:38

but but like Yeah, like he's like. Yeah, Just read it like give me some pointers or whatever. Most of what I said was.

[justin]: 00:12:45

This is cool, you know, and from a d Ms. perspective, even hearing that or hearing like, Yeah, maybe tweak this. Um,

[justin]: 00:12:54

It just allows you to kind of get some of that fire back in your step and feel excited about what you're making because

[justin]: 00:13:00

we're all self conscious and we're like. Is this really good and then you send it out and someone's like, Yeah, like,

[justin]: 00:13:04

I love how this could be this and you're like I don't even think about that. That's super cool. You know.

weyland]: 00:13:09

I know it's true like I can't stress enough. that. like that Beetle song, you know, we get by with a little

weyland]: 00:13:16

help from our friends. It's very true and and I think that that's probably one of the big ways to avoid. Burn

weyland]: 00:13:23

out. another way that I'd recommend. Aside from getting help in general is simplifying right. I think that when

weyland]: 00:13:33

you kind of over complicate things sometimes then then you need moments of going back to the basic Uh, to

weyland]: 00:13:40

help you kind of get your feet back under you to appreciate why you're doing in the first place. I like, for

weyland]: 00:13:46

example, let's say that you're in the middle of a dungeon and it's just fight after fight after fight And

weyland]: 00:13:54

you personally aren't a dim. That gets. That is all that excited about fighting, you know, and and you just

weyland]: 00:14:02

haven't had a lot of that kind of creative goofiness that a lot of people look for in a campaign Which happens all

weyland]: 00:14:10

the time, like in a town setting, Right? And so what do you do then it's like Well, you can keep pushing through.

weyland]: 00:14:17

Certainly, or you know, you can go back to the basic. You can find a way within the dungeon, or you know, Have

weyland]: 00:14:23

the players do like a side dream, You know, series of sessions or who knows what? Right just to get back

weyland]: 00:14:29

to what you love, and almost like, take a break from just putting the pedal to the metal on something that kind

weyland]: 00:14:36

of drains you week after week. you know.

[justin]: 00:14:40

Yeah, I completely agree and you know it doesn't even need to be like a side dream. I think flashbacks

weyland]: 00:14:48

Hm.

[justin]: 00:14:48

are severely under used in the D n D world, especially because in most cases a lot of adventurers have been together

[justin]: 00:14:57

for a long time, and I don't know. Um, and there's nothing wrong with playing out parts of one of your players back stories.

[justin]: 00:15:07

Um, Excuse me, I also like the idea of changing up sessions. so like

weyland]: 00:15:16

Yeah,

[justin]: 00:15:16

shortening them, Maybe making them longer. Maybe you know, Uh, putting them in different places, putting them online

[justin]: 00:15:25

if you do in person or vice versa. You know, just kind of changing it up and seeing if that can make your process a

[justin]: 00:15:32

little bit easier. you know,

weyland]: 00:15:34

Yeah, I think flexibility is a huge part of this. Right. If you're feeling burned out, then being like, Hey,

weyland]: 00:15:41

what can we change That we haven't changed, you know, just to change it up for a bit, because you know, like

weyland]: 00:15:47

they say, variety is the spice of life and so adding so variety to your sessions. that's huge. Like. like,

weyland]: 00:15:54

for personal example, I was running a campaign with some family members of mine and and my wife was very. She

weyland]: 00:16:04

was concerned to how long the sessions were taking, because they take like three hours. you know, um, like

weyland]: 00:16:10

three or four hours, And that kind of just got to me mentally because I was like. I don't like that. She's so

weyland]: 00:16:16

frustrated by that And so, while I was initially kind of hesitant, I was like Hey guys, can we keep this to an

weyland]: 00:16:23

hour and a half to two hours? You know each time and people were like, Yeah, that's fine and I was like,

weyland]: 00:16:29

Oh, that's great. And then like that switch actually made it a lot better because I knew They like. She's

weyland]: 00:16:36

totally fine with me spending like a couple hours on this. That's that's absolutely okay. And then that mental

weyland]: 00:16:42

kind of burden was off me. Um, whereas other people, maybe you've been doing a bunch of short sessions and

weyland]: 00:16:48

you constantly feel like you're just missing a little something. Maybe once a month,

[justin]: 00:16:52

Hm.

weyland]: 00:16:52

you have that longer session like you're talking about. You know.

[justin]: 00:16:57

You know, I also think with simplifying one thing that trips me up is the pacing of the story and I was trying to figure

[justin]: 00:17:06

out how to really phrase this, but in my games I'm always and maybe it's because I'm too much of a planner. but I'm always

[justin]: 00:17:14

trying to figure out how to make sure what I have prepared lasts the full session. And this goes. This goes back to what

[justin]: 00:17:25

you were saying about shortening sessions. Possibly, Um, but in having that thought of, I need to make sure I make

[justin]: 00:17:34

it interesting for the full four hours. Or what? not? That thought can be fairly damaging, because you might either

[justin]: 00:17:41

speed certain things up that shouldn't be sped up,

weyland]: 00:17:44

Yep,

[justin]: 00:17:44

or you might slow things down. I'm thinking about combat, particularly that if they get slow down, it's going to make everything

[justin]: 00:17:52

way more boring.

weyland]: 00:17:54

Yeah,

[justin]: 00:17:54

So I think with pacing you kind of like I'm not a horse rider, but the only way I can describe it is when you have horse

[justin]: 00:18:05

reins in your hand and again, I'm not a horse rider. You're not supposed to hold them super tightly, but you're not

[justin]: 00:18:10

supposed to let them be super loose. Otherwise the horse is going to go wherever it wants, so you hold them in kind of

[justin]: 00:18:17

this middle area, So that way when you need to add correction, the correction is slight, but Abrupt and then quick, so that

[justin]: 00:18:26

way you know corrects the course, just like driving. you don't you don't drive? correcting like this like moving your

[justin]: 00:18:34

hands like forty five degree. Is you do like one to two degrees? So I think with simplification, maybe let go of

[justin]: 00:18:43

the reins a little bit. Let the

weyland]: 00:18:45

Hm,

[justin]: 00:18:46

story do what it wants to do, and just kind of be along for the ride, adding your little tweaks here and there to make

[justin]: 00:18:53

sure it It is on an interesting path. right,

weyland]: 00:18:57

Yeah, exactly, have a place that you're trying to head towards and have certain things that you want to happen.

weyland]: 00:19:04

But let the journey to those things be pretty flexible. I love that. I think it's very important because like

weyland]: 00:19:12

the moment that you feel like your entire campaigns on rails, then you know for a fact that the players are going

weyland]: 00:19:17

to going to dislike it, and half of the energy and the H, and kind of the refreshment that we get out of a campaign

weyland]: 00:19:24

is the players showing that appreciate Ation, And so, if you just are constantly trying to push for your own

weyland]: 00:19:32

agenda, instead of kind of letting it flow naturally, you're going to miss out on that and finally, just to end up

weyland]: 00:19:41

to end this topic. I would say the last tip is take a break. Um, I think you know what Justin said about.

weyland]: 00:19:50

Hey, take a break before you feel burned out or get help before you feel burned out. That's absolutely True.

weyland]: 00:19:58

Um, but you know if you start to smell that smoke, so to speak, there is a chance that if you just keep pushing

weyland]: 00:20:04

through, then you're gonna just burn yourself out so much that you never want to play again, which would suck

weyland]: 00:20:09

because you put a lot of time into this. It's something that you really enjoy. It's honestly, it's probably

weyland]: 00:20:15

one of the more collaborative kind of fun experiences that people have with their friends, right, D, N D is a very

weyland]: 00:20:23

unique kind of game situation. And so it's better to actually just be like. Hey, you know what I think? I'm done

weyland]: 00:20:31

for a second. Anybody else? want to be a damn? Just you know, for a while, you know more than just a few sessions.

weyland]: 00:20:39

And then that would help you kind of get, Prevent yourself from at least burning out all the way, right.

[justin]: 00:20:47

Yeah, the term forever d, M does not have to be a prison sentence like you can use that, but that doesn't mean you can

[justin]: 00:20:57

never be a player. and excuse me, you know, recently in my campaign we've had like two or three weeks where we couldn't

[justin]: 00:21:07

play just because schedules couldn't line up. That's okay, too. I know that some frustration might be because of schedules

[justin]: 00:21:14

not lining up or not getting sessions in When you want to again. That kind of goes back to being a little Lucy, goosey

[justin]: 00:21:21

and rolling with the flow or flowing with the world. whatever the term is,

weyland]: 00:21:25

M. hm,

[justin]: 00:21:26

The second thing I just like to add is baring, Barring you being a professional dungeon master. Like, unless this is

[justin]: 00:21:36

your profession, you rely on being a dungeon master to pay the bills. This is just a hobby right. this is just something

[justin]: 00:21:45

you do for fun on the side and other things will naturally take priority. I think the concept of a balanced life can only

[justin]: 00:21:54

really exist in aggregate. You can't look at one particular month and say Oh, I have a balanced life Because If you think

[justin]: 00:22:02

about it, we, we sleep eight hours a day theoretically, and we work eight hours a day Theoretically, So like that's not

[justin]: 00:22:09

super balanced. Considering you have to eat. Do all your social responsibilities have fun? You know, Maybe work on

[justin]: 00:22:15

improving yourself in the other eight hours. That's not super balanced. And also, if you think about it, you know

[justin]: 00:22:21

when you go to college like my brother went to med school During the time when he was in med school, his life was hundred

[justin]: 00:22:28

percent unbalanced. Right and only now Is he kind of regaining some of that balance and picking up other parts of

[justin]: 00:22:35

his life. So like Tanner said, If you do need to step away from D and d or being a D. M, that's totally fine and I

[justin]: 00:22:44

would add to that and I know this is kind of sacrilege being on the How to be a better D M podcast. But if you need

[justin]: 00:22:51

to step away from Dungeons and Dragons itself and pick up other games, go ahead like I am a big fan of Star Wars Fantasy

[justin]: 00:23:00

Flight Role Playing games.

weyland]: 00:23:02

Hm.

[justin]: 00:23:02

You know, I wish there was kind of a blanket term for it, but you know Age of

weyland]: 00:23:07

It's Age

[justin]: 00:23:07

Gosh.

weyland]: 00:23:07

of Empire,

[justin]: 00:23:07

What is

weyland]: 00:23:08

Edge of the

[justin]: 00:23:09

Age

weyland]: 00:23:09

Empire,

[justin]: 00:23:09

of Empires? Thank you.

weyland]: 00:23:10

Sorry, not

[justin]: 00:23:11

Yeah,

weyland]: 00:23:11

Age of Empire. that's a game.

[justin]: 00:23:12

uh,

weyland]: 00:23:12

Edge of the

[justin]: 00:23:13

Age

weyland]: 00:23:13

Empire,

[justin]: 00:23:13

of Empires, but if you want to play Age of Empires, that's an excellent game.

weyland]: 00:23:17

Also,

[justin]: 00:23:17

too

weyland]: 00:23:17

great game.

[justin]: 00:23:17

highly exactly exactly. But, but, but you see what I mean like, there's so many options out there. I'm not saying

[justin]: 00:23:23

you should stay away from Dandy forever, But if you need to go like, like going to a new country, do that and I have

[justin]: 00:23:32

fun, please come back because this is a podcast about being a dungeon master, so we want you to listen to us, but also

[justin]: 00:23:38

Dan dis way better than every game depending on how you play. But uh, the final thing I just want to say is D, and

[justin]: 00:23:46

should not be the highest priority in your life. Like naturally, family, Naturally, other things come first. So if

[justin]: 00:23:53

there is unbalanced in that area may be lean towards other areas than d n D. If you need to right

weyland]: 00:24:00

Yeah, I totally agree. taking a break. You know, it could be from gaming. It could be from the type of game that

weyland]: 00:24:05

you're so used to. whatever it is. Take that break before it gets too far and that's going to wrap up our

weyland]: 00:24:13

topic for today, Justin. thank you. you've been so helpful with just discussing this topic.

[justin]: 00:24:19

My pleasure, thank you.

weyland]: 00:24:20

Of course. of course, so for all of you out there, you know we care about you. we care about your mental

weyland]: 00:24:26

relational, emotional health, and we hope that you're taking care of that and getting the help that you need.

weyland]: 00:24:33

And you know we're going to cover this topic, probably in some way or another in the future, but get out there.

weyland]: 00:24:39

Take a break if necessary, and until next time, let's roll initiative.