Episode 65
How to Engage Unengaged D&D Players
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Warmup:
Your D&D Group of 5 is suddenly and permanently moving to a D&D group of 4. Your players love having 5 characters. You get to now create a character that is actually your character.
Intro:
Welcome back to How to Be a Better DM. I’m your host, Justin Lewis, here with my cohort, Tanner Weyland. Together, we’re here to help you learn how to craft better stories for your players as you play D&D. Today, we’re going to talk about a big challenge today: how to engage players in D&D who don’t seem to be engaged.
Before we get to today’s topic let’s go through some housekeeping items.
Main topic:
Justin
Reality check.
At some point (whether before or after trying any of these tips), you will have to come to grips with the fact that maybe your player doesn’t actually want to play D&D. They might be playing just to make you happy or they are giving it a try and they don’t really grasp it yet (or it isn’t their thing). So when you get to a point when you don’t know how to engage an unengaged player, ask them if they really want to play. Chances are, D&D isn’t for them.
- Flank your players
Your unengaged player is not just an unengaged person. No matter what you think, there is something in life that does engage them. So with this step, examine your player. Think about what they like to do in their free time. Think about what you might find them doing when they don’t have any responsibility and can do whatever they want. If you can’t think of anything, then ask them. Learn about your players. Something in what they choose to spend their free time on will trigger an idea. Let’s think of a few possibilities.
T.V.: Most people, when asked what they do in their spare time, will say they watch a handful of shows. This is golden material for you. Ask them what shows they like to watch and then go research those shows. Try and dissect what those shows bring to the table.
Video Games: A lot of people will also say video games. This is also golden material because not all games are the same. You get different things from playing Halo Infinite than you do Elden Ring. So ask them what games they play mostly. Then try and incorporate some of that game into the campaign.
Social Media: Many people might say they spend a lot of time scrolling the feeds of social media. Excellent. Ask them about that or even follow them and do some research.
You might be noticing a pattern. You see, everyone has things that they like. Your job is to figure out what your players like and then add that to the game.
Bonus: After you get good at that, you can then start to anticipate what they *probably* will like. That is when the game gets even more exciting.
- Shorter Sessions
Tanner
- Side Arc: If your players are having a hard time connecting, do a side arc! Kind of like a bottle episode, but longer. Using what you learned about their favorite shows/games//genres, create a side arc that puts their character into an interesting situation. Just remember that you want them to have high control of the new arc—otherwise, they will be disconnected from the experience. The real joy of a side arc is that the players can have a real effect on the world. When it is the main campaign, DMs have to be careful with how much creative control. With side arcs, you can be more free with player control. Examples:
- Have them create a store, restaurant, or other business, and have them participate in a business rivalry.
- Have them wake up in a Squid Game style death game run by some noble.
- Make a boat journey where they run the boat.
Intermission:
Now that player came back. You have to get rid of your character that love. How do you do it?
Main Topic Cont:
Justin
- Secrets
One way to help your unengaged player re-engage is to involve them in a conspiracy. Well, it’s not actually that insidious, but you get the idea. Everyone loves a juicy secret. While you are at the table try incorporating whispers to a singular player or having everyone but one player leave the room for some time. Even if your unengaged player isn’t the player involved in the secret, they will still wonder and speculate as to what might be happening. This will involve their mind and hopefully spark their curiosity which will trigger interest.
If you can’t find a way to do that at the table, then try it in between D&D sessions. You’ll have to use the unengaged player as your accomplice otherwise they’ll likely never know of the secret. Make sure to use phrases like, “Pretend like you don’t know,” or “Don’t tell anyone else”. This will give them a prompt for their role play. Everyone has lied so they’ll know how to do it which should make roleplaying slightly easier.
- Lighten up on the long-winded stuff
- Travel time.
Tanner
Player Controlled NPCs
- this is always fun to me: players come up with the most fun NPCs. Give them some guidelines. If you are really wanting them to get involved, let them control a villain!
Conclusion
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Transcript
m m
lewis]:welcome back to how to be a better d m let's jump in with today's
lewis]:warm up topic tanner
weyland]:yes
lewis]:your dandy group of five is suddenly and permanently moving a dandy group of four
lewis]:one of your players is leaving for whatever reason and the rest of the players
lewis]:love having five characters so you now get to create a character that is actually
lewis]:your character you will be playing what character do you create
weyland]:okay for my
lewis]:yah
weyland]:character since i would not
lewis]:h
weyland]:want
lewis]:m
weyland]:you know especially since i'm the i'm the d m i don't want too much
weyland]:involvement what i'd probably do is i would take it an existing n p c
weyland]:like from this story
lewis]:m
weyland]:and i just embody them and
lewis]:yeah
weyland]:they now tag along right and at that point it just
lewis]:hm
weyland]:depends on
lewis]:yeah
weyland]:what it is so i'm gonna in order to really go with the spirit of
weyland]:the warm up
lewis]:my
weyland]:i'm goin to say that it is a
lewis]:oh
weyland]:a half ling
lewis]:oh
weyland]:a half ling who specifically
lewis]:oh
weyland]:is like overly empathetic you know
lewis]:oh
weyland]:that's kind of like their character flaw slash
lewis]:yeah
weyland]:quirk where they're just like
lewis]:hm
weyland]:any time that a player is like i heard
lewis]:m
weyland]:at all or inconvenienced they just they're
lewis]:oh
weyland]:like oh my oh my goodness i didn't
lewis]:oh
weyland]:how are you even live you know
lewis]:yeah
weyland]:like they just get overly concerned
lewis]:yeah
weyland]:and that's kind of the character quirk in terms of what they are
lewis]:oh
weyland]:i'm going to go with cleric just simple cleric you know i think that that's
weyland]:like
lewis]:oh
weyland]:um in terms of an n p c that i would have fun going back
weyland]:to over and over again i think that having a cleric who is
lewis]:oh
weyland]:like overly pathetic
lewis]:yeah
weyland]:um and maybe like a little nosy you know like and to
lewis]:m
weyland]:get confessions or the equivalent
lewis]:h
weyland]:of that from players and being like hey
lewis]:oh
weyland]:you can you can trust me you know and i think it's a good chance
weyland]:for
lewis]:yeah
weyland]:one of my favorite types of humor which is annoying people um
lewis]:uh
weyland]:no on joking but h
lewis]:h
weyland]:but
lewis]:oh
weyland]:i think that would work out well
lewis]:oh
weyland]:let's say that he's a half ling cleric named dunder yeah
lewis]:i love that it's funny that you say half ling clerk because in the campaign
lewis]:i'm running right now like a lot of sessions back i actually did introduce an
lewis]:m c who was a half ling cleric to tggleinwith
weyland]:nice
lewis]:a while
weyland]:nice
lewis]:you know venner done
weyland]:yeh
lewis]:that but welcome back listener to how to be a better excuse me i'm your
lewis]:host justin lewis with my cohort tanner wayland
weyland]:hello guys
lewis]:and and today we are here to help you learn how to craft better stories
lewis]:for your players as u d m sessions of d and d and today we're
lewis]:actually on to talk about a big challenge which is how to engage players who
lewis]:don't necessarily seem to be engaged and before we get to do day's topics let's
lewis]:go through some housekeeping
weyland]:oh
lewis]:items as usual
weyland]:perfect
lewis]:sorry tenor
weyland]:yeah
lewis]:i don't know why i'm yawning so much today
weyland]:you know what i hear that kirsty and i we just had the weekend
lewis]:yeah
weyland]:and
lewis]:hm
weyland]:we're already kind of dead because it was a busy weekend and then we're also
weyland]:leaving chicago on uh
lewis]:oh fun
weyland]:yeah yeah we're leaving thursday coming back the following wednesday so um
lewis]:oh
weyland]:so anybody from chicago you know just you keep your eyes
lewis]:yah
weyland]:open and you probably still won't
lewis]:h
weyland]:see us because we're a you know needle and hay stack but
lewis]:ah
weyland]:but
lewis]:yeah
weyland]:regardless uh yeah so but like even just the preparation like we both have to
weyland]:get it on work and stuff and we're just we're tired
lewis]:h
weyland]:so i
lewis]:m
weyland]:might be doing my own share of yawning but anyway
lewis]:i
weyland]:i'm
lewis]:get
weyland]:curious
lewis]:that
weyland]:justin i hear that you have
lewis]:yes
weyland]:one shot coming up
lewis]:yes yes so this saturday october first at four o'clock p m mountain time i
lewis]:will be i will be posting the one shot for september ah and if you
lewis]:want to watch that that is at better dungeon master dot com slash watch all
lewis]:of the slots to play
weyland]:yeah
lewis]:are actually full and we we had to re schedule a couple times but we
lewis]:finally got it nailed down and it's going to happen this saturday for sure
weyland]:great
lewis]:and then the next one shot is actually happening on october twenty second i believe
lewis]:that's happening at six p m mountain um and again you can also watch that
lewis]:on better than gamester dot com slash watch that is being hosted by our
lewis]:h such a struggle
weyland]:yeah
lewis]:our friend and guests of the show bone daddy rob from this dungeon is occupied
lewis]:which is a podcast similar to how to be a better dim and then if
lewis]:you want to sign up for the next one shot or even just get on
lewis]:the list for anyone shots coming up just go to better dungeon master dot com
lewis]:slash one dash shot and sign up it's free and it's first come first
weyland]:yeah i think those both sound awesome you got you got a little tit
lewis]:ah
weyland]:bit of what your your one shot is going to be about this saturday
lewis]:yes yes i do it's one that i've run before actually so if you have
lewis]:had me run it for you you'll get a more polished version but essentially you
lewis]:and your companions get a letter from one of your friends from the town of
lewis]:autumn's grace in the no prefecture of fair wind and this letter indicates that strange
lewis]:things have been happening in the town a few families have gone missing and then
lewis]:they have inexplicably
weyland]:m
lewis]:reappeared without any notice and their behavior has been modified somehow they're acting strangely and
lewis]:this friend of yours teresa
weyland]:oh
lewis]:is concerned them no one else in the town shares her concerns even though the
lewis]:third family of kind of this string of events has recently disappeared and then reappeared
lewis]:and they're happening more close together but that's just a little haste of the one
lewis]:shot you'll be getting
weyland]:love it
lewis]:this saturday if you watch it or play
weyland]:great awesome
lewis]:yeah next housekeeping item is i want to give a special shout out to all
lewis]:of you spotify listeners out there we i looked the other day we have thirteen
lewis]:reviews pretty pretty good reviews actually i haven't figured out how to see sorry they're
lewis]:not reviews the ratings thirteen ratings on spotify
weyland]:yeah
lewis]:i haven't figured out how to see reviews but they're pretty good and there's no
lewis]:names attached to him so i can't thank you by name but thank you so
lewis]:much you spotify listener out there who has found it worthy of your time to
lewis]:give us a five star rating it's it's very humbling and we're super grateful to
lewis]:you for that
weyland]:yeah that's that's honestly incredible
lewis]:yeah
weyland]:means a world to us
lewis]:yeah and if there are apple podcast listeners out there that think apple podcast is
lewis]:better than spotify well you're just gonna have to prove it by going in giving
lewis]:us some ratings and we'll see who is the better pot as listener but the
lewis]:last thing we want to do is
weyland]:m
lewis]:ask you for a very big favor see only you can prevent horrible episodes only
lewis]:you can prevent horrible how to be a better dungeon master episodes and the way
lewis]:you do that is by going to better dungeon master dot com slash feedback and
lewis]:give us feedback on these episodes tell us what you like what you don't like
lewis]:i was in a facebook group the other day and i posted our show and
lewis]:i said hey give us some give us some information on what you think and
lewis]:one person said i missed the old seven minute episodes i think your episodes are
lewis]:too now so um that's something to consider but if you like longer episodes you
lewis]:need to tell us or else we're goin a do shorter episodes
weyland]:that's actually a good point i'll keep that in mind for my other solo podcastskay
lewis]:exactly but but but don't do anything drastic until we figure out what the listener
lewis]:actually wants
weyland]:no
lewis]:because that was
weyland]:i'm
lewis]:just
weyland]:going to change
lewis]:one voice
weyland]:everything
lewis]:in
weyland]:due to one comment everything in my life
lewis]:i love that
weyland]:just
lewis]:i
weyland]:realize
lewis]:love that
weyland]:your power over me just everybody you could say that my name is bad changing
weyland]:it i'm changing it i'll do it just kidding
lewis]:what
weyland]:i
lewis]:would
weyland]:like
lewis]:you
weyland]:my
lewis]:change
weyland]:name
lewis]:it to just just by the way
weyland]:now i'm totally joking on that one i actually really like the name tanner m
lewis]:really
weyland]:yeah i do i do
lewis]:oh
weyland]:i actually like my middle name to lewis but with an e w
lewis]:yeah
weyland]:i asked m
lewis]:oh i like that name too
weyland]:yeah
lewis]:actually
weyland]:i mean you got the last name right but i've always thought like
lewis]:yes
weyland]:that louis would be a good first name specifically
lewis]:yeah
weyland]:like spelled that way because i mean there's
lewis]:yes
weyland]:a lot of louise you know and i'm like louis i don't think it's
lewis]:m
weyland]:highly of but louis is a first name that's
lewis]:m ah
weyland]:you know that's that's a
lewis]:yeah
weyland]:good one otherwise
lewis]:yeah
weyland]:i mean you got to love erigorn i mean just getting
lewis]:yeah
weyland]:i would never
lewis]:just change
weyland]:never
lewis]:your name to rigor and why not i mean i might
weyland]:m
lewis]:be tempted to but i digress anyways let's get to today's main topic which is
lewis]:helping play s who feel disengaged or you feel disengaged to re engage and the
lewis]:first thing i want to start with and then tender kind of go off and
lewis]:begin the points we want to bring up and the methods but the first thing
lewis]:i want i want to bring up is that uh it's time for a reality
lewis]:check you know at some point whether
weyland]:oh
lewis]:or or after trying any of these tips you might have to come to grips
lewis]:with a fact that maybe that one particular player you're trying to engage in the
lewis]:game doesn't actually want to play dan d they might just be playing to make
lewis]:you happy they're giving it a try and they don't really grasp it yet or
lewis]:it just isn't their thing so when you get to a point when you don't
lewis]:know how to engage an unengaged player ask them if they really want to play
lewis]:and sometimes you'll just find out that dandy isn't
weyland]:oh
lewis]:for them so with that reality check done let's get into our tips for engaging
lewis]:unengaged players tenner will you go first
weyland]:yeah and just as a cave
lewis]:oh
weyland]:at the start of this you know it's it's never wrong to if a player
weyland]:is not even joying themselves obviously use the tips we're going to suggest
lewis]:m
weyland]:now but also if they'd rather just like back out gracefully give them that chance
weyland]:right but
lewis]:hm
weyland]:if it doesn't seem like that's what they
lewis]:oh
weyland]:want like they don't necessarily want to back out gracefully they just
lewis]:yeah
weyland]:want to be more engaged then this this is the podcast
lewis]:oh
weyland]:for you but like one thing that i thought
lewis]:yeah
weyland]:was very is very important for engaged players
lewis]:oh
weyland]:is you know giving them more control like
lewis]:yeah
weyland]:just more creative
lewis]:ah
weyland]:control in general right because the whole idea about being engaged is i mean if
weyland]:you think about times in your personal life
lewis]:oh
weyland]:when you're unengaged you know a lot of times they will and if you're in
weyland]:a conversation or you know and you're not actually talking you know i've had moments
weyland]:like that i'm generally
lewis]:oh
weyland]:like a very like social
lewis]:h
weyland]:person but like if i go out on a on a date with my with
weyland]:some friends of hers and specifically i don't know the husband that well he doesn't
weyland]:know me you know but my wife
lewis]:hm
weyland]:knows his wife pretty well then like sometimes they talk and i try and you
weyland]:know interject and be involved but there are moments when i'm like i'm not a
weyland]:part of this conversation i us you know and
lewis]:yeah oh
weyland]:and it's times like that that gets easy to get unengaged now when i'm able
weyland]:to contribute and that's kind of the key word here and i think a lot
weyland]:of our tips are going to deal with that if you're able to contribute um
weyland]:in a way that makes the game feel different then your player will get re
weyland]:engaged you know
lewis]:i like that a lot actually um i know that personally for me in school
lewis]:whenever i've had to read things or or study materials it was really difficult for
lewis]:me when i felt the material didn't relate to me when it was just kind
lewis]:of esoteric or ethereal but when i found that i was reading about a topic
lewis]:that i could like you said or maybe
weyland]:m
lewis]:not i could but it would contribute to me you know like because we're all
lewis]:in some way self centric i like your idea of helping the players realize what
lewis]:they can do and helping them do more of that putting their giving them more
lewis]:control and i think that's a really good point one other thing that i really
lewis]:like to do is you know i've thought about this specifically in terms of people
lewis]:with a d d and it's a real thing but people often characterize them as
lewis]:just people who struggle focusing right but one thing i've noticed is that they don't
lewis]:struggle focusing on everything
weyland]:yeah
lewis]:you know i've noticed that a lot of young boys but in particular who have
lewis]:d managed to focus on video games for long periods of times which means that
lewis]:they don't just have problems of focusing they have problems focusing on certain things so
lewis]:you're you're unengaged player that doesn't necessarily mean that they're an unengaged person that they
lewis]:don't like doing things in general so what i encourage you to do is try
lewis]:and figure out what actually interest them outside of deity what things fascinate them with
lewis]:things they like and if it's not obvious you're goin to have to do some
lewis]:kind of problem solving an analysis but you know ask them what sort of things
lewis]:they like to watch on t v ask them what video games they play and
lewis]:if you need to start you know trolling are not trolling what's the word stalking
lewis]:them
weyland]:ah
lewis]:on social media i guess you control them but hopefully you're doing it in a
lewis]:nice way but uh
weyland]:you're like hey
lewis]:stock
weyland]:hey
lewis]:them on social
weyland]:you suck
lewis]:and
weyland]:tell me what you like about games
lewis]:exactly exactly but essentially you know i figure out stuff that they actually have interests
lewis]:in you know for example like if someone was there stocking me gosh why can't
lewis]:i remember that word but if someone was stalking me on social media they'd find
lewis]:out that you know i spend time with my wife i have hydroponic garden in
lewis]:my house and i do thready printing and those are all facets that you can
lewis]:kind of dissect and put into a game because and maybe i'm not a perfect
lewis]:example but let's say someone has an interest in cars well what's the best thing
lewis]:to do with that then you start putting mechanical monsters or problems into your game
lewis]:and hopefully that should interest your uninterested person because it's bringing in one of their
lewis]:interest from outside of the game into the game if that makes sense
weyland]:yeah i love it because i think there's so many aspects about i mean the
weyland]:great thing about the india is that it's a whole world right that's why we
weyland]:have different skills
lewis]:m
weyland]:that have nothing to do with fighting right because there's so many
lewis]:hm
weyland]:things
lewis]:m
weyland]:it's essential you
lewis]:oh
weyland]:could treat it like
lewis]:yeah
weyland]:life now but just like in a fantasy world and like from you know
lewis]:hm
weyland]:a few centuries ago and that's what's amazing
lewis]:yeah
weyland]:is like hey
lewis]:yeah
weyland]:if they if they aren't down for just the typical talking to
lewis]:oh
weyland]:an n p c about you know some thing quest related and then combat and
weyland]:then some exploration and and treasure i mean i'm guessing they're going to be interested
weyland]:in some aspect of that but it might get wrote for them
lewis]:m yep
weyland]:and they might get engaged
lewis]:m
weyland]:if that's the case be like okay
lewis]:yeah
weyland]:let's spice this up let's throw in any of the numerous other things in life
weyland]:that make it interesting in that kind of like
lewis]:oh
weyland]:you know i think
lewis]:oh
weyland]:like you said you know finding out there what t v shows they like you
weyland]:know what video games uh like different things like that that's a great way to
weyland]:get started you know
lewis]:hm
weyland]:and then you can find out what kind of themes they like in games like
weyland]:if they like eldon ring or game of thrones then you know some of these
weyland]:darker themes might be their jam and it's like hey got to happen to that
weyland]:more ah
lewis]:exactly
weyland]:but if they're like oh no i love like aragon then you're like okay so
weyland]:more of a light fan to see more like typical but like
lewis]:oh
weyland]:a lot more dragons i guess
lewis]:on
weyland]:you know
lewis]:yeah
weyland]:whatever it is and that's actually kind of leads into my
lewis]:oh oh
weyland]:one of my
lewis]:oh
weyland]:tips which is specifically like side arcs because the thing is if someone's on aged
weyland]:maybe you've been stuck with the main campaign for too long you know
lewis]:hm
weyland]:maybe they just
lewis]:hm
weyland]:feel like they've kind of been like pushed railroaded in some aspect towards like the
weyland]:big bad and everything you as the d m have planned along the way so
weyland]:just you know take a pit stop instead being like okay let's do a side
weyland]:arch where you know i think d m is like i was mentioning their little
weyland]:protective
lewis]:yeah
weyland]:of their work and so
lewis]:h
weyland]:they may be don't
lewis]:m yeah
weyland]:allow players to be as creativebecause they're like oh i don't want my players to
weyland]:be creative in terms of coming up with like a really cool sword because that
weyland]:will break the game or be really creative in terms of
lewis]:yeah
weyland]:like certain relationships are funny
lewis]:ah
weyland]:solves for things because like oh man i meant for this to be a hard
weyland]:battle no instead
lewis]:yeah
weyland]:like have us dark that it's like
lewis]:ah
weyland]:you know what they're on a boat and they are travelling up river to go
weyland]:to a vacation island and everything goes wrong but like they also like do a
weyland]:lot ship type stuff you know and it's kind of like
lewis]:yeah
weyland]:the managing a ship and that's like very different but if they're people who are
weyland]:into pirates of the carabean that's their jam you know and it's a nice little
weyland]:wait rekindle their creative spirit you know
lewis]:i agreed and on the show we talk a lot about the virtues of doing
lewis]:one shots and there's no harm in doing one shots within the arc of your
lewis]:campaign and they don't have to even be called one shots um
weyland]:yeah
lewis]:you essentially you know you can take any of these one shot type adventures change
lewis]:things here and there and put them within our campaign as tanner is saying and
lewis]:you have a nice break as it were without really taking a break and even
lewis]:i just started watching the show demons layer have you have you
weyland]:oh yeah
lewis]:heard of that tanner
weyland]:yeah yeah girl with
lewis]:oh
weyland]:the
lewis]:it's
weyland]:bamboo thing in her mouth has brother the whole thing
lewis]:yep
weyland]:a great
lewis]:yeah it's super popular right now and i highly recommend it but spoiler alert in
lewis]:case you are planning on watching it but around like episode gosh i don't even
lewis]:know like episode five essential um he goes to the main character goes to the
lewis]:big city and essentially meets the big bad boss like face to face right and
lewis]:then the next episode he does a little bit in the city and then the
lewis]:next episode he's basically the way that they work they get missions from crows
weyland]:yeah
lewis]:essentially the crow tells him to leave the city and go do something else and
lewis]:me as you know a very linear thinker i'm thinking wait but the big bad
lewis]:guys there why is he leaving you know but the way the story goes it's
lewis]:much more delightful because you know that there's this big bad guy in the back
lewis]:ground and it's kind of building this tension but it goes on this full long
lewis]:detour which then turns out to not be a detour so if you feel like
lewis]:putting in one of these kind of side arks is jarring don't feel that way
lewis]:because it's not
weyland]:yeah
lewis]:at least if you don't make it that way
weyland]:yeah because you can still tie it back in like at the end
lewis]:hm
weyland]:into the big bad or you just add it is like a wonderful little little
weyland]:break
lewis]:exactly
weyland]:and you know like i had some
lewis]:oh
weyland]:well i was tinking about this i was like oh there's so many side arts
weyland]:that you could do that would change
lewis]:oh
weyland]:everything up for a bit right for like two or three sessions
lewis]:exactly
weyland]:you know like you could do a squid game il death game when it's like
weyland]:oh the players slept in in they wake up there in the middle of an
weyland]:arena you know or you know or it's like oh
lewis]:yeah
weyland]:your characters are obviously kind of done with the combat and everything and some of
weyland]:them have side hobbies maybe they get together to create a store or like a
weyland]:stand at a local farmers market
lewis]:yeah
weyland]:and there's kind of a business rivalry and that sounds like such a funny like
weyland]:little side thing where you can still do all the roles may be a combat
weyland]:or two
lewis]:yah
weyland]:but it's just totally a different flavor and i think if you especially based the
weyland]:side arc off of something that you found
lewis]:oh
weyland]:out about that player like you said you know earlier then then you got you've
weyland]:got an engaged player immediately you know
lewis]:agreed and on the note of having them you know do stores or restaurants or
lewis]:things part of me wonders if maybe some players become disengaged because they aren't aware
lewis]:of all that things that they actually can do with their character like i wonder
lewis]:if my current group even knows that you know they can start businesses or do
lewis]:things in between quests you know and and have other non quest related long term
lewis]:of goals and so that might be something to also add helping your players understand
lewis]:that they can do those things and helping them really expand their create
weyland]:yeah
lewis]:um but let's let's do a quick intermission hop back to our warm up of
lewis]:earlier in the show so tanner in this situation you've created your character your new
lewis]:kind of long term m p c but the player who said they were never
lewis]:going to come back has come back and now you have to get rid of
lewis]:this extra character how do you do it
weyland]:okay going with the theme of our episode today
lewis]:yeah
weyland]:about engaging players what i would do is have the least
lewis]:m
weyland]:engaged player go for an outing with with under the the halflin cleric um dunder
weyland]:would be like hey i've noticed you've been down no you don't need to lie
weyland]:to me you know just like like le be up
lewis]:m
weyland]:in
lewis]:yeah
weyland]:that person's face and be like you know what let me take you to my
weyland]:favorite place and then his favorite place is a waterfall or something i'm going to
weyland]:say waterfall uh where when
lewis]:hm
weyland]:he was a kid he would go a lot when his parents died and you
weyland]:know that's where he first started like falling in love with nature and feeling peace
weyland]:and that kind of him to his faith and why i became cleric so what's
weyland]:going to happen is he goes there
lewis]:yeah
weyland]:and then they share like a good moment and then out of the blue something
weyland]:horrific happens right like for example
lewis]:oh
weyland]:from
lewis]:yeah
weyland]:the maybe from the top of the waterfall a giant rock falls and then the
weyland]:player rolls rolls of checking and is able escape but dunder doesn't and he's just
weyland]:done ah and then
lewis]:uh
weyland]:and then like the player looks up
lewis]:h
weyland]:and
lewis]:yeah
weyland]:and there's like a shadow and someone obviously like left and had pushed it or
weyland]:you could go the more classic route and it's like
lewis]:m
weyland]:oh there's a giant octopus
lewis]:oh
weyland]:arm that reaches out grabs dunder and just drags like under drags him away and
weyland]:then i could always bring him back later um
lewis]:it drags dunder under
weyland]:under under
lewis]:is that what you're
weyland]:yeah
lewis]:saying
weyland]:that's you got
lewis]:uh
weyland]:it
lewis]:h
weyland]:we're
lewis]:yeah
weyland]:just so in since i love this yeah so that's that's
lewis]:yeah
weyland]:what i'm saying dunder
lewis]:yeah
weyland]:went under ah thunder yeah
lewis]:the thunderous waterfall
weyland]:yep
lewis]:i love it i love it well continuing on with our tips for engaging your
lewis]:disengaged players the last one i think i'm going to share today is secret and
lewis]:i think one way to help your unengaged player re engage is to involve them
lewis]:in a conspiracy well not really like a conspiracy but kind of a conspiracy because
lewis]:everyone loves juicy secrets so while you're at the table tryingcorporating whispers to a singular
lewis]:player or having every one but one player leave the room or text individual players
lewis]:if you do that i would say make it a little bit obvious that someone's
lewis]:getting a text with specific information because even if you unengaged player isn't the player
lewis]:involved in the secret they are still going to wonder they're still going to be
lewis]:like what does that person know that i don't know they're goin to speculate as
lewis]:to what
weyland]:m
lewis]:might be happening and this is going to involve their mind and hopefully spark their
lewis]:curiosity which triggers interest if nothing else
weyland]:yeah
lewis]:and if you can't find a way to do it at the table try to
lewis]:find ways to do it in between sessions but if you do that again you're
lewis]:going to have to use the unengaged player as the accomplice the person who knows
lewis]:the c it's otherwise they're never going to know the secrets because you know you
lewis]:have to make curiosity or intrigue and make sure to use phrases like pretend you
lewis]:don't know this or don't tell anyone else again this this kind of puffs them
lewis]:up a little bit and gives them a prompt for how they should role play
lewis]:and you know everyone's lied a little bit so they know how to do it
lewis]:but but it really kind of our you're feeding them a little bit of the
lewis]:intrigue and curiosity and an interest that can help them spice up kind of how
lewis]:they're playing dandy
weyland]:yeah and even going along with that i think allowing the secrets that you have
weyland]:with your characters to be substantial you know i think that
lewis]:m
weyland]:can because going back to my mirigual
lewis]:yeah
weyland]:point if you are so protective of your game that you don't include players in
weyland]:the creative process in a way that actually affects every he else and affects the
weyland]:story then they're not going to care so if you give them a secret it's
weyland]:like oh my goodness you found out there was ten pieces of gold in a
weyland]:brick under the wall that's not going to do anything
lewis]:uh
weyland]:you know that's going to be like oh cool
lewis]:yeah
weyland]:so my character comes back and he's ten gold richer whatever you
lewis]:yep
weyland]:know versus being like you
lewis]:yeah
weyland]:actually were the person who killed that character's sister you know um and like you
weyland]:come up with
lewis]:m
weyland]:that together
lewis]:oh
weyland]:and you like really try and keep that a secret then that's like you know
weyland]:that that's some real medi uh like engagement that you're going to get there you
weyland]:know and it actually
lewis]:agreed
weyland]:kind of like um it kind of brings up something that i thought of which
weyland]:was now letting players create and our control n p c s that's kind of
weyland]:like one of the biggest forms of secret keeping in the game like period right
weyland]:like
lewis]:hm
weyland]:you know sometimes i listen to a few like table top you know liveplapodcasts and
weyland]:some of them you know they have like improve like people who are trained and
weyland]:improve and what they're really good at is yes and you know where they're like
weyland]:oh you know you go get a lot back and forth and kind of buying
weyland]:into them imagination
lewis]:oh
weyland]:um
lewis]:oh
weyland]:and some
lewis]:yeah
weyland]:of them like the specific podcast called the campaign
lewis]:ah
weyland]:podcast
lewis]:my
weyland]:uh they are very good at like oh if there's just some random o n
weyland]:p c they'll let a player like just jump in and pretend to be that
weyland]:shopkeeper and it will be hilarious you know
lewis]:m
weyland]:and so like
lewis]:m
weyland]:i
lewis]:ye
weyland]:think that things like that or a more substantial kind of an involvement having the
weyland]:player play kind of a rook purring side character
lewis]:oh
weyland]:you know in addition to their main character or even the villain you know uh
weyland]:maybe not the huge villain because you know i know that's a lot but like
weyland]:there's a lot of side boss many bosses along the way and having like a
weyland]:player kind of like pitch some to you and then like oh you just everyone
weyland]:ill pepper that in and they get to act like weird and maniacal and all
weyland]:the kind of things that we kind of wish we could do with our players
weyland]:but we don't with our characters i mean but we don't as we don't want
weyland]:to ruin it for everyone else let them
lewis]:hm
weyland]:create an
lewis]:uh
weyland]:n p c with you know
lewis]:yeah
weyland]:ah you know and be creative as they want if you're worried do it on
weyland]:a side arch you know it's like oh so they're having that they're making a
weyland]:bakery and then the rival bakery that they're going to go to the fair and
weyland]:compete against each other may be the player one of the players plays the the
weyland]:baker and he like has an accent and all you know he's kind of goofy
lewis]:oh
weyland]:you know just play with it i think that's a great way to give players
weyland]:some some change and also some creative license
lewis]:i really like that to anything to help the d m out source is is
lewis]:a good tip in my book and that that should take some time effort and
lewis]:stress off of table and hopefully put it back in the players table the players
lewis]:hands and actually make it more fun for them so
weyland]:yeah
lewis]:i really really like that type so in conclusion some tips to help you engage
lewis]:those unengaged players there's probably a lot more tips uh and actually we'd encourage you
lewis]:to send those to us and and open up a conversation you know you can
lewis]:reach out to us on instagram at how to be a better d m which
lewis]:is also the place where we will be having a give away coming up and
lewis]:here so keep an eye out for information on that but thank you for being
lewis]:here listener tanner any parting words for our wayward adventurer today
weyland]:um honestly i just hope that you guys have the best campaigns and that the
weyland]:players who are engaged you know are able to get that engagement and kind of
weyland]:living up the game again because i think that will make everybody happier
lewis]:m agreed make sure you have the best of campaigns the best of sessions will
lewis]:be back next week for the best of episodes until then let's go ahead and
lewis]:roll initiative
