Villages Vs Dungeons: When and How to Use Both

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You can see my double chin this way.

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Hello and welcome to How to be a Better

DM, the official podcast of Monsters.Rent.

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I'm here with Justin Lewis.

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Say hi, Justin.

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Hi, Justin.

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We are here today to talk about a fun

little topic, basically, Dungeons and

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Villages, when and how to use either.

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So I mean, this topic, I've always find it

interesting, like the composition of a

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campaign, you know?

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If you treat it like a like a sandwich,

it's like, okay, what you know, it's a

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nice BLT.

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Do you put the tomatoes on first?

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Do you put you know, are you a maniac and

you just put a bunch of bacon and just

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like a leaf of lettuce?

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You know, what do you do?

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And how do you kind of balance it?

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That's kind of what a lot of DMS have to

do when it comes to being like, Hey, I

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want a really cool dungeon.

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But I also want to have some of the more

role playing heavy

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Villages and kind of switch it up.

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Have you ever thought about this kind of

balance that you have Justin?

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I haven't necessarily thought of the

balance, but I certainly have fallen into

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the blunders that we're going to talk

about with each of these.

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And when you do, it's pretty annoying

because you kind of kick yourself and be

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like, dang, that dungeon could have been

so fun or that village could have been so

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fun.

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I will say, I definitely think one might

be a little bit easier because, well,

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we'll get

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I'll reveal all as we talk.

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Exactly.

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So for the purpose of this discussion,

just to give a little roadmap, we'll kind

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of dive into dungeons and villages or

cities, you know, we're saying villages,

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but we mean any kind of settlement where

it's going to be, you know, more NPC

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centric built.

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So that's kind of what we're thinking

about when we think of village.

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And it could be any size could be a

little, you know, three shacks by the side

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of the road, or it could be an entire

city.

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Surrounded by huge walls with giant

palaces within it, right?

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And it just kind of the that's we're

bundling that as one experience done on

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the other side dungeons now It's not

always a dungeon per se but it's kind of

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like a curated Experience where you know,

the adventuring party is going into one

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specific place and exploring, you know

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And it's not somewhere they're just

traveling through.

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It's like, no, it's, it's a specific kind

of, uh, self-enclosed experience.

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Uh, so kind of getting into it, let's,

let's talk about dungeons and what kind of

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makes a dungeon special.

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Yeah.

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And one other thing I'd like to also add,

just sort of a caveat.

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These are traditional dungeons and

villages.

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You could theoretically take whatever

we're talking about, like the aspects, and

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apply them to the other one, right?

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For example, by nature, dungeons will be,

or seem more railroad-y, right?

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Choices have been made and now choices are

restricted, right?

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Like once Aragorn follows the path of the

dead and he goes into the mountain, the

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ghosts know he's there, right?

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He can't just, well, he could just turn

around and walk out, but those are his

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only two choices.

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Proceed, stay where he is.

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I guess three choices or go backward.

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But, but theoretically you could make a

village more railroad-y, but we're going

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to talk in general terms.

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So that's really the first.

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point of a dungeon and kind of what it is

once you're in it, it's either stay where

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you are, which is kind of not really a

choice, go forward or go back.

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Exactly and once you're at the dungeon you

can kind of expect You know, I think it's

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gonna be reskinned and you're going to as

a DM, you know We talked about this before

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you want to give a variety of experiences,

you know, don't have every combat be the

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same Have interesting mechanics and

include traps here and there and make sure

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they're not all the same either But that's

kind of what you're expecting in the

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dungeon.

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You're gonna expect a lot of combats with

various creatures

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A lot of traps that or just you know

obstacles and skill checks that the party

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is gonna have to deal with and of course

loot.

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I think that that's Another big difference

between villages and dungeons is a dungeon

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So long as you beat the enemy or the

challenge or whatever it is The treasure

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is just sitting there.

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You don't have to barter.

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You don't have to pay anything you paid

with your time And and your characters,

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you know

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bodies essentially, right?

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And I think that's kind of you, that's

what you expect.

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And yeah, it might be within a druids

ancient enclave or something or it could

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be in a crypt, you know far below the

city, you know, or whatever it is.

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The skin is going to look different and

the types of monsters is going to be

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specific to the environment, but it's

still kind of those elements, you know.

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Absolutely.

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Kind of to that point, you know, a

traditional way of making dungeons is

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coming up with either the map first or

kind of the end goal first, right?

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So if they're going into this crypt to

destroy a lich, you know, you know that

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they're going to fight the lich at some

point, unless they leave the crypt, right?

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That's just how it is.

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And then you sort of fill everything in

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challenges to make it more difficult and

things like that.

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So with all that said, compared to a

village, a dungeon is a lot more obvious

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in terms of goals, right?

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People don't necessarily go into a dungeon

and then halfway through be like, wait,

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like when we get to the end, what are we

gonna do?

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It's like, no, we're gonna kill the baddie

and take the loot, right?

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Like that's the dungeons part of Dungeons

and Dragons.

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Exactly.

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And so I find that dungeons are, they're

nice in one way and they're difficult in

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another.

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First, they're really nice in the way that

it's simple.

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You know, the players, like I was running

a campaign and I had a dungeon.

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You know, this was one of those campaigns

that kind of sputtered out pretty early on

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because school happened and all this other

stuff, right?

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But we had gone through it opened up with

essentially a dungeon crawl, you know,

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kind of like a smaller to medium sized one

took a few sessions and And then it was

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like a couple villages in a row and they

the players like afterwards.

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They were like, Oh, I really like that

initial dungeon.

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And I think that the reason why is because

like, Hey, when you're just opening up to

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adventure, uh, especially if your party

isn't amazing at role play, you don't

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scratch that.

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Even if they are amazing at role play role

playing, I think that you have, there's a

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lot of difficulty in launching right into

role playing.

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If you haven't had kind of those more like

grindy dungeons that you have to go

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through, right?

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You kind of need experiences.

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in order to really enjoy a village.

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And I think dungeons are a perfect place

for that.

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I couldn't agree more and I actually think

based on what you said, it sparked kind of

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this thought in my mind that I often talk

about galvanizing experiences at the

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beginning of campaigns or with one shots

that force the party to be a party, right?

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And those galvanizing experiences can be,

you know, shared trauma or they could

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literally be we've all been hired to do

the same thing.

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And

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To your point, Tanner, I think doing

dungeons at the beginning of a campaign is

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very important because it does allow the

party to sort of form those bonds.

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And even thinking, you can do dungeons in

sort of a very non-dungeony way.

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So the example I'm thinking of is the

Erois campaign of high rollers.

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They're a group out of the UK, and I've

been listening to them

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lately and spoiler alert if you haven't

listened to it but their campaign starts

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with session one they're on an airship and

they're being attacked right and basically

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chapter one of this campaign the airship

crashes in the lowlands which is a wild

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and inhospitable place right and there's

like five or six survivors fibers

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including the party

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Actually, there might be more because I

think there were NPCs.

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But in a larger sense, that is a dungeon

because their options are we have to find

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civilization or we're going to starve, be

attacked by wild elves, things like that,

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right?

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And I might be kind of expanding the

definition a little bit, but you can do

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things like that.

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And I do think that starting campaigns

with a dungeon is a very good idea.

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Because again, it does give everyone that

clear reason of why are we traveling

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together?

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Why are we cooperating?

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Because everyone always likes to pick

those characters that are mysterious and

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don't trust anyone, you know.

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Yeah.

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And, and, you know, I think for all the

strengths of a dungeon, because like you

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mentioned, it's, it's right in the name.

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As much as people love dragons, dungeons

comes first.

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Uh, and, but I think that the issue is

that sometimes they can be fatiguing,

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especially for a DM, but also for players,

right?

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Where it's like, if, if it's big enough,

well, I mean, caveat, if your players come

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in being like, Hey, I want to do a huge

dungeon, you know.

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Uh, just like multi-level and that's

basically the entire campaign's one big

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dungeon that that's, that's the exception.

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If you're just including a dungeon as part

of the campaign, if you do too long of a

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dungeon, then it's just, it's a lot of

combats.

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It's a lot of the party being essentially

on edge the entire time, right.

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Being like, Oh, you know, stealth into the

next room for like 10 sessions in a row.

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You know,

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And it just becomes so fatiguing.

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And so it's like, Hey, you know, pick your

battles, uh, specifically by, you know,

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making it so that not every dungeon is

super long, uh, occasionally, I think it's

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totally worth it to do a longer dungeon,

especially if you've got really big

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consequences and if you build it up, then

the players are like, Oh, okay.

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Prepare well.

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Cause you know, there's no coming back or

not for a while, at least then, you know,

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a longer campaign can be fine.

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It'll still be fatiguing, but it's kind of

like the hard days work type of fatigue.

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Otherwise you don't want to do that

consistently in my opinion.

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I would actually add two examples of my

current campaign.

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Um, so I had my group in the underdark and

my thought process was, well, in the

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underdark, you don't really, you guys

don't know where you're going.

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So you're, you're literally wandering

around.

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Uh, and I was making the map as I went,

basically rolling on random tables to see

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what rooms were, were next.

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And they weren't keeping a map, right?

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And suffice it to say it went on far too

long.

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And I did that because I was like, yeah, I

want them to feel the frustration of being

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in the underdark, right?

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Being lost.

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But I think it failed because you don't

want your players to feel that you want

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the characters to feel that.

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So exactly right, Tanner.

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You don't want to do too big of a dungeon,

but you said something very important.

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If you prepare them for the scope of it

and the scale.

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I think that's the secret sauce.

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Exactly, you know, because any type of

here's the great thing.

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We talk about Dungeons and Dragons being

about storytelling and it's absolutely

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right and stories come in all kinds of

shapes and sizes, but as a general rule,

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you know, if you're not really building a

dungeon up, then maybe make it small to

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medium length, you know, and then for

longer ones, you want to give that kind of

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a gravitas to it beforehand.

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Um, but, but enough about dungeons, let's

talk about villages and cities.

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Um, I think it's no surprise that first

and foremost, they're just much more role

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playing focused, right?

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You don't go into a dungeon expecting to

talk with every mimic who's pretending to

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be a chest, right?

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You go into a dungeon to just, you know,

hack and slash and find stuff.

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Villages.

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It's like, no, that's, that's the key

difference is like people.

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NPCs and you're going to be talking a lot.

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and how you kind of utilize those

role-playing opportunities can be the

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difference between a very boring city or

village and a very exciting one, you know?

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Yeah, absolutely.

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Kind of what I was saying before, you

know, Aragorn goes into the path of the

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dead.

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He's in the dungeon per se.

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It's not exactly the same thing, but his

choices are stay put, move forward or go

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backwards in a, in a city, a village, a

settlement.

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Your decisions are, uh, go forward, stay

put, go backward, go right, go left, go

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up, go down, go inside, go outside that,

you know, there's a lot more choices.

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And.

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To this point, as I said with a dungeon,

the game mechanics were a lot more obvious

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with a dungeon, right?

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There are traps that cause things.

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In a settlement, you have more choice,

right?

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And because of that, you're...

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The game mechanics aren't as obvious.

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You might gain favor in the eyes of a

baron because you did something for them,

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which isn't a direct game mechanic, but

it's something that your dungeon master or

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you might be factoring in because you

slaughtered this orc that was holding this

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person hostage or something like that.

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It's sort of a subtle game mechanic that's

not so obvious, but it still has impact.

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That's another aspect of villages and

cities that is very different than

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traditional dungeons.

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Exactly.

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And I think, I think if you look at it the

right way, then Villages provides you a

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lot more creativity, especially where, you

know, like you were saying, the mechanics

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aren't obvious.

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So make your own mechanics, and

specifically, make it in a way that

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provides both direction and development

for characters.

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Because I think that's where Villages

really shine, where it's like

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if you look at a dungeon in terms of like,

oh, that's a place where they get kind of

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galvanized together as a party, the place

where they grow as individuals is in a

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city, you know, in a village, that's where

the characters can be like, hey, I'm gonna

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go pray at the nearest, you know, temple

of the God that they worship, right?

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Or they're going to go look for a specific

type of equipment that they're looking

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for.

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Or maybe they're, they're like, hey, I

want to go find

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you know, the best pie in the city or

whatever it is, right?

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The point is, is that in a city, if you

encourage it, players can really get

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connected with their characters.

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They can get really invested in their

characters, uh, personal, you know, goals

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and aspirations and growth.

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And that's, you know, that's just such a

great, uh, part of it.

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And in terms of the mechanics being more

fluid, uh, you know, I think that in a

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city and once again, just as a.

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caveat here, cities also should be, you

know, you shouldn't keep a player in a

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city too long, you know, um, kind of same

as a dungeon, uh, they should go out and

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then come back kind of thing.

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But with that in mind, uh, you should be

willing to kind of play around with some

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interesting mechanics, like, Hey, maybe

your players want to start up a food cart

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or a business, or they want to, you know,

go and study at the local library and like

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get something out of it.

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Villages, you know, if you're creative,

they can be so much more than just a place

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where they get a couple side quests from

some needy passerbys and also buy

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equipment from the local store, right?

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They can be something where you actually

do real things that we do in life, right?

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But for a party of players, right?

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Absolutely.

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And I think in a city, it is the time to

really pay attention to those moments

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where your players express sort of an

interest of their character that might

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seem unorthodox or kind of like a waste of

time.

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Go full in on that, right?

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If someone's like, you know, like my

character likes animals, so maybe they

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would want to go see a zoo.

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Spend time making some pretty cool

encounters at the zoo.

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where they could actually make some

progress in their character's life.

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Like they could maybe find an animal

companion or a secret treasure or

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something, like treat their simple

interests as important because then

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they'll share them more often and they'll

kind of go down those rabbit holes.

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And also kind of going back to what you

were saying about your own game mechanics.

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I think one of those that

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we're going to talk about on a future

episode is character reputation.

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And, uh, sorry, my computer just, did I

cut out there?

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Okay.

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Yeah.

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My computer just was like, Nope, I'm going

to sleep.

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Anyways, um, character reputation can be a

very powerful mechanic, especially in a

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city because there's people with whom you

can gain reputation or lose it.

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Right.

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Yeah, exactly.

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And I think that, you know, aside from

developing personal character arcs,

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developing relationships with NPCs, that

can't be understated, right?

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Because it's like, hey, it character

reputation is important on the city wide

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level.

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And I think that's really fun.

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But also like with individual characters,

you know, in video games, they do it

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really well, where they're like, Oh,

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: 00:19:17

You kind of have to reach a certain level

of like favorability with an NPC.

295

: 00:19:23

And then that unlocks different

opportunities or, or whatever, you know.

296

: 00:19:27

And I think that we, as DMs, when there's

a city, I feel like it's actually

297

: 00:19:32

worthwhile to kind of create, you know, a

little, you know, a little, uh, level.

298

: 00:19:37

Uh, for some, at least for some of the

major NPCs, right.

299

: 00:19:41

That they're going to be interacting with

on a regular basis and kind of make it so

300

: 00:19:45

that they are.

301

: 00:19:47

not only encouraged to develop themselves,

but also develop relationships with NPCs

302

: 00:19:53

by doing like side quests and stuff.

303

: 00:19:55

And I think side quests is, you know,

something that you should really emphasize

304

: 00:20:01

in general in a bigger city.

305

: 00:20:03

Because it's like, you know, with a main

quest, you kind of think of it as

306

: 00:20:08

continuously going forward and moving on

to the next place and the next place after

307

: 00:20:13

that.

308

: 00:20:14

in a city you don't especially if it's

bigger, you don't want to go there, visit

309

: 00:20:18

once, and then just never use it again.

310

: 00:20:21

You know, especially if the players

haven't had the time to really wring it of

311

: 00:20:25

all its good, you know, opportunities.

312

: 00:20:29

And so it's nice in a city to, like you

were saying, it's like, hey, make

313

: 00:20:33

essentially a side outing, or a side quest

of going to the zoo, or oh, hey, my

314

: 00:20:39

uncle's farm, I haven't heard from him in

a while.

315

: 00:20:43

Could you help me?

316

: 00:20:43

You know, and you just really, it's a

chance for you to play around with

317

: 00:20:47

different, you know, opportunities and

kind of quest lines that aren't just the

318

: 00:20:53

main big earth shattering quest, you know?

319

: 00:20:56

Absolutely.

320

: 00:20:58

Thinking about this and thinking about

some of the challenges that you will

321

: 00:21:03

probably encounter when running cities in

your game.

322

: 00:21:07

I'm just thinking about some of the

challenges I've had in the first one is

323

: 00:21:11

it's really easy for the one player who

usually doesn't kind of speak up.

324

: 00:21:18

It's really easy for that one player to

sort of fall back and take a back seat to

325

: 00:21:22

everyone else.

326

: 00:21:23

So I'd highly encourage you to

327

: 00:21:26

Ask each player individually, even in

between sessions, what are you planning on

328

: 00:21:32

doing this next session?

329

: 00:21:34

What are errands you're going to want to

run?

330

: 00:21:37

Places you're going to want to go

shopping.

331

: 00:21:40

Asking that can give you a lot of ideas

for how to run the game.

332

: 00:21:44

Second thing I'd say is it's super easy.

333

: 00:21:47

It's too easy for your entire party to

split up.

334

: 00:21:50

I've had multiple sessions where we were

running.

335

: 00:21:54

I was running my campaign.

336

: 00:21:56

while the players were in water deep, the

characters were in water deep, and every

337

: 00:22:01

character was basically doing their own

thing, and it sort of set a pattern for

338

: 00:22:06

like the next 20 sessions, which really

annoyed me, because even when they're in

339

: 00:22:10

the Astral Sea, they're all like doing

their own thing, it was super annoying.

340

: 00:22:13

So I would say, when you ask each player,

what do you wanna do?

341

: 00:22:18

Okay, what do you wanna do?

342

: 00:22:19

Okay, and you get kind of that list, make

at least two,

343

: 00:22:26

You know, like every point of interest

should be next to at least one other point

344

: 00:22:31

of interest of another character.

345

: 00:22:32

So that way it just makes sense for them

to travel together just conveniently.

346

: 00:22:37

It's going to save you a lot of headache

because then you're going to be dealing

347

: 00:22:40

with groups of two, groups of three,

rather than one person, one person, one

348

: 00:22:44

person, one person.

349

: 00:22:46

At least that's what I've seen in my

experience.

350

: 00:22:50

Yeah, absolutely.

351

: 00:22:51

And, and you know, it might be nice to be,

to kind of just push that along.

352

: 00:22:56

There's, there's easy ways to make that

happen, right?

353

: 00:22:58

You can be like, Hey, okay.

354

: 00:23:00

So you want to do, uh, you want to go to

the, to this bakery cause you heard a

355

: 00:23:03

rumor and you want to go to the, uh, dark

information guild, uh, and actually

356

: 00:23:10

they're right by each other.

357

: 00:23:12

It's in the, yeah, exactly.

358

: 00:23:15

Right.

359

: 00:23:15

Uh, they, uh, they bake the information

into the pies.

360

: 00:23:18

Um,

361

: 00:23:19

Dark pies.

362

: 00:23:19

you know, you could be like, Hey, you're

both over there.

363

: 00:23:22

So let's say that you guys both go over

there together.

364

: 00:23:25

Don't give them an option.

365

: 00:23:25

It should be like, so you guys are going

over there together.

366

: 00:23:28

Great.

367

: 00:23:29

And then the other two you can do

similars, right?

368

: 00:23:31

Uh, and you know, just kind of talking

about, about potential pitfalls and

369

: 00:23:38

villages, same as, you know, the dungeon

it's like, Oh, it can be too long.

370

: 00:23:42

Uh, I think, uh, villages can be too

samey.

371

: 00:23:49

And I mean this in the way that like, you

know, dungeons typically have their own

372

: 00:23:53

characteristics and their own setting.

373

: 00:23:56

How many times does a village just appear

like an ancient European village in your

374

: 00:24:01

mind and in the minds of the players?

375

: 00:24:03

It, cause it's like, oh, you're, you know,

they go to a village and they pass the

376

: 00:24:07

city walls and there's, you know, probably

horse carts and carriages and mud on the

377

: 00:24:12

street, you know, and it, and it just gets

378

: 00:24:15

too samey and it's like hey if they're

gonna be in a in a city or a village for a

379

: 00:24:19

while why not make it a dwarven village

where you know they've got stonework out

380

: 00:24:25

the wazoo and they you know it's at the

base of an active volcano you know just

381

: 00:24:30

you want to still put time into you know

discussing the scene setting and making it

382

: 00:24:37

play a role in everything that the players

are doing you know

383

: 00:24:41

Absolutely.

384

: 00:24:42

You don't want them to forget any

particular city.

385

: 00:24:48

And they probably won't because of the

experiences that the characters will have,

386

: 00:24:54

but you don't want them to forget the

interests or the uniqueness of each city.

387

: 00:25:01

You want them to think, wow, Waterdeep was

like the first big city we went to, and it

388

: 00:25:05

has that crime ring.

389

: 00:25:08

Red Lark was where we fought that.

390

: 00:25:10

earth priest and he caved in the center of

the, you know, very unique experiences,

391

: 00:25:15

but also if possible setting pieces that

invoke all five senses.

392

: 00:25:23

Yeah, exactly.

393

: 00:25:24

Cause you know, you gave some great

examples there.

394

: 00:25:28

You can make, you can add flavor in so

many ways and you can do it in ways that

395

: 00:25:34

actually add fun to the game as well.

396

: 00:25:36

Right.

397

: 00:25:36

And it's not just, you know, fully just

you saying something about it.

398

: 00:25:41

It's like, no, the players are

experiencing it.

399

: 00:25:43

Right.

400

: 00:25:43

If you're in a city that's crime-ridden

and every shopkeeper is like, Hey, are you

401

: 00:25:49

just going out at this time of night?

402

: 00:25:51

You sure?

403

: 00:25:52

You know, and if like the players multiple

times run into like pickpockets or

404

: 00:25:56

something, you know, just regular basis.

405

: 00:25:59

Um, and they're like, they get back to the

hotel like every other day and they're

406

: 00:26:02

like, dang it, I'm losing some, I missed

some coins, you know?

407

: 00:26:06

Uh, or if they're like, if they go into,

you know, if they have to roll endurance

408

: 00:26:13

checks, you know, based on like the, uh,

ice cold temperatures outside when they're

409

: 00:26:18

not inside of a tent.

410

: 00:26:20

then that also adds, you know, easy flavor

because there's a mechanic tied into that.

411

: 00:26:25

And I think that if you think about

villages that way, then it can actually

412

: 00:26:28

be, uh, it can have some of the good parts

of a dungeon in the way that it's not

413

: 00:26:33

purely role playing, you know?

414

: 00:26:35

Absolutely.

415

: 00:26:36

I think the secret sauce to both of these

is to take the traditional way they do it

416

: 00:26:44

and then sprinkle in a bit of the

opposite.

417

: 00:26:46

So for dungeons, to make it a really good

dungeon, you keep it fairly obvious,

418

: 00:26:53

fairly simple.

419

: 00:26:55

You know what the goal is.

420

: 00:26:57

Sprinkle in a little bit of twists and

some role playing here and there and some

421

: 00:27:02

lore, right?

422

: 00:27:03

Things that you don't

423

: 00:27:04

that you'd expect more of from

role-playing situations.

424

: 00:27:08

And the dungeons suddenly becomes really

interesting.

425

: 00:27:11

With the village and the city sprinkling

some interesting game mechanics or some

426

: 00:27:15

points of interest, some opportunities to

gain some loot, and it suddenly becomes a

427

: 00:27:21

much more interesting place because there

are things that you can do and potential

428

: 00:27:26

danger and things like that.

429

: 00:27:28

And you're sort of having the best of both

worlds, I think.

430

: 00:27:31

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

431

: 00:27:33

And one thing that I think a village or

city could really gain from it, and you

432

: 00:27:38

kind of have to play it by ear with this,

is just making sure that the players don't

433

: 00:27:43

get stuck there too long.

434

: 00:27:45

Because if they do, then a few things can

happen.

435

: 00:27:49

One, they can lose the main thread, where

they get so focused on side quests.

436

: 00:27:53

And sadly, as much as those side quests

are fun, if players spend too much time on

437

: 00:27:58

them,

438

: 00:27:58

and on working on their own characters,

like little, you know, tasks and such,

439

: 00:28:03

then suddenly the entire campaign, it

loses its steam.

440

: 00:28:08

It loses that kind of driving purpose that

the, uh, that the players had.

441

: 00:28:14

And so I think it's really important that

you kind of balance and you see how many

442

: 00:28:19

sessions you've been in a city and you

see, you kind of even sketch out and be

443

: 00:28:23

like, okay, what is everyone focused on?

444

: 00:28:26

And if you're like, Oh,

445

: 00:28:27

All of these feel like they've been

focused outside of the main story for a

446

: 00:28:30

while, then that's your cue to, you know,

maybe be a little bit more dungeon.

447

: 00:28:35

Like can give an obvious sign of like,

Hey, go here, do this.

448

: 00:28:39

Let's get you back on track.

449

: 00:28:40

And the world depends on it, you know?

450

: 00:28:43

And I think that would make it so that you

don't, so a city or village doesn't

451

: 00:28:47

overstay its welcome in the campaign.

452

: 00:28:50

Absolutely.

453

: 00:28:50

I think an easy way to make sure that

doesn't happen as well.

454

: 00:28:57

Once you've made those calculations and

you've decided, yeah, this city has wore

455

: 00:29:01

out its welcome and the players still

don't want to leave, then have the main

456

: 00:29:06

thread come knocking on the door or rather

break down the door, kick it down as, you

457

: 00:29:10

know, on writing excuses from Brandon

Sanderson.

458

: 00:29:12

They say all the time.

459

: 00:29:13

A good example of this, it's not, they're

not necessarily in a city.

460

: 00:29:17

But if you think back to the first

Avengers movie, they're on the

461

: 00:29:19

helicarrier, right?

462

: 00:29:20

They have Loki, he's in their prison cell,

things are supposedly going well, and then

463

: 00:29:26

the bad guys come and take down the entire

helicarrier and kill Agent Coulson and let

464

: 00:29:32

the Hulk loose and steal the scepter and

full reversal, right?

465

: 00:29:38

If that didn't happen, the plot stops

there, the story's over.

466

: 00:29:42

So that's a great way, if your players are

stuck,

467

: 00:29:46

more or less, doing their own things,

right?

468

: 00:29:48

Even theoretically, they could be drifting

apart as friends within the party, have a

469

: 00:29:55

massive problem in the city that they're

in that they are probably somewhat

470

: 00:29:59

responsible for because they didn't follow

that thread and they should be back on, or

471

: 00:30:05

at least they should be starting to think,

crap, how do I do this and that at the

472

: 00:30:08

same time and start having kind of those

more moral quandaries?

473

: 00:30:12

I think that's always a really nice way

to...

474

: 00:30:14

Just get things up and going again.

475

: 00:30:17

Exactly.

476

: 00:30:18

And I think, uh, you know, we've talked a

little bit about it here and there, but I

477

: 00:30:24

think you should already be seeing kind of

the place that dungeons versus villages,

478

: 00:30:29

uh, have, you know, in your campaign,

because if you're really wanting the

479

: 00:30:35

players, if you feel like they've been

very tense and that they've had a lot of

480

: 00:30:40

exploration and you know, dungeon

crawling, essentially.

481

: 00:30:45

then it's like, hey, this might be a great

time to give them a breather, you know,

482

: 00:30:48

where they are spending time in a city

where they're getting to develop their

483

: 00:30:52

characters individually and kind of build

in like some, essentially some spices,

484

: 00:31:00

some variety, you know, to the adventure.

485

: 00:31:04

And then once you've added enough of that,

and as soon as you're like, oh,

486

: 00:31:09

we need more substance or more simplicity,

then you go to a dungeon, you know?

487

: 00:31:15

And between them, you're making sure that

the travel is interesting, that there's

488

: 00:31:20

unique experiences there as well.

489

: 00:31:22

But I think those are gonna be the kind of

the main meat and potatoes of any

490

: 00:31:26

campaign.

491

: 00:31:28

100%.

492

: 00:31:29

I think the main simplistic way of

describing dungeons versus villages and

493

: 00:31:36

cities is a constriction or an expansion

of choices.

494

: 00:31:42

And I think the best time to introduce one

is when you've had too much of the other,

495

: 00:31:48

right?

496

: 00:31:49

Obviously following whatever storyline

you're creating, but if you've been going

497

: 00:31:54

on a dungeon for a while,

498

: 00:31:55

have them reach the other side and there's

a nice little town.

499

: 00:31:59

Maybe they've gotten to Shangri-La and

they want to, they want to hang out there

500

: 00:32:03

with the Yetis and, and just going to eat

some, or drink some hot cocoa for a while.

501

: 00:32:07

Who knows, right?

502

: 00:32:09

Exactly.

503

: 00:32:10

I love how you sum that up because, you

know, so much of being a DM is just

504

: 00:32:16

playing it by ear and being like, okay,

the party.

505

: 00:32:20

And it's okay to ask them to be like, Hey,

how are you enjoying the dungeon?

506

: 00:32:23

And if you can start telling that like,

oh, the kind of which it was over, then

507

: 00:32:27

that's your cue.

508

: 00:32:28

It's like, okay, village coming up, you

know, let's end this quick and you know,

509

: 00:32:33

cut out a few of the extra rooms and

encounters I was planning.

510

: 00:32:37

And then if they're in the village, and

you can, I feel like maybe sometimes it's

511

: 00:32:43

harder to tell in a village that the

players are ready for the next bigger

512

: 00:32:48

you know, uh, hurdle.

513

: 00:32:49

Uh, and so with that one, you just want to

really make sure that everyone has had at

514

: 00:32:55

least a moment of time to kind of develop

themselves and then, you know, maybe do a

515

: 00:33:00

side quest that's kind of a fun little

distraction, or maybe go onto the next

516

: 00:33:05

part of the main quest and then bring them

back to the village.

517

: 00:33:07

Right.

518

: 00:33:08

You got options.

519

: 00:33:10

100%.

520

: 00:33:10

Couldn't agree more.

521

: 00:33:12

Well, thank you all for listening to us

kind of explain this balance between

522

: 00:33:18

villages and dungeons and we hope that

you'll go out in your campaigns and maybe

523

: 00:33:24

even your smaller campaigns as well and

just think about like, hey, am I going too

524

: 00:33:30

long in a dungeon or do I need a dungeon

right now because we've just been in a

525

: 00:33:35

village too often.

526

: 00:33:37

Just really, really implement both of

those well in your campaign.

527

: 00:33:41

And it's going to be a whole rounded

experience.

528

: 00:33:45

And, uh, yeah.

529

: 00:33:46

Any last thoughts, Justin?

530

: 00:33:50

I think both of these can be very fun

instances.

531

: 00:33:56

And in terms of when should you use

either, I think Tanner summed it up.

532

: 00:34:01

He said, you gotta play up a ear.

533

: 00:34:03

What you're listening to with that ear is

your players.

534

: 00:34:06

Whatever they want, that's what you do,

right?

535

: 00:34:08

Obviously what you want too, because

you're a player too, but what the table

536

: 00:34:13

wants.

537

: 00:34:15

Oh, sorry, I think you cut off for a bit.

538

: 00:34:17

No, no, that was it.

539

: 00:34:18

What the table wants, what the table gets.

540

: 00:34:19

That's, that's, let's see.

541

: 00:34:21

That's great.

542

: 00:34:23

Perfect.

543

: 00:34:23

Well, I hope you all go out there in your

next campaign or in your current one.

544

: 00:34:29

You know, give them the balance that

they're looking for, the well-rounded

545

: 00:34:33

experience, and until next time, let's

roll initiative.