How to Stay Excited About Being a Dungeon Master (Avoiding DM Burnout)

[justin]: 00:00:01

Welcome and I don't like that. Sorry, today's show is going to be with me and Tanner. We're going to be talking about

[justin]: 00:00:10

a particular topic. Basically as hobbies go, This one requires a lot of dedication and sticktuitiveness. Sometimes

[justin]: 00:00:20

you just don't feel like prepping or running a session, and sometimes you just aren't excited to be a d. M. so in that

[justin]: 00:00:25

regard, Tenner and I today are going to talk about how to stay excited and avoid done And master burn out. Um, before

[justin]: 00:00:33

we get into that any any thoughts, Tenor, you know, how are you doing?

weyland]: 00:00:38

Thank you. thank you. thank you for asking Justin doing well Doing well. It's been a busy week. Just been. so,

weyland]: 00:00:46

my dad kind of as a birthday present to my wife. we moved into the new house and we had this idea. We were like.

weyland]: 00:00:52

Oh, let's do an accent wall. That will be fun, you know, in our master bedroom. And and so luckily, my dad.

weyland]: 00:01:01

Well, my mom volunteered my dad's time and we'd pay for the materials and he's been helping us So much. But like

weyland]: 00:01:10

boy, how does it take a while? like?

[justin]: 00:01:13

Uh,

weyland]: 00:01:13

I've been helping

[justin]: 00:01:14

uh,

weyland]: 00:01:15

as much as I can. but you know it's kind of. it reminds me of when I was a kid how my dad asked for our help

weyland]: 00:01:21

all the time. but half the time I was just standing there holding something for him. you know, I kind of feels like

weyland]: 00:01:27

that. Sometimes it's like Oh, when I'm standing, you know, and there's like a lot of stuff to do. We could help.

weyland]: 00:01:31

but you know when he's calking, you know around it, I can't do anything, so that's that's been this week's adventure

weyland]: 00:01:38

just Every evening feeling like like, like a man just getting hand doing yourself. Stuff is not just for men,

weyland]: 00:01:46

it's for everybody who wants to have a bad time, but it's it's been. you know, kind of interesting. Otherwise

weyland]: 00:01:55

just just doing good. going to watch a Super Bowl for the first time in years, because my wife loves Rana,

[justin]: 00:02:05

Uh,

weyland]: 00:02:05

so that

[justin]: 00:02:05

yeah,

weyland]: 00:02:05

should

[justin]: 00:02:05

that

weyland]: 00:02:05

be

[justin]: 00:02:06

makes

weyland]: 00:02:06

interesting,

[justin]: 00:02:06

sense.

weyland]: 00:02:06

too.

[justin]: 00:02:09

Yeah, that's awesome. That's awesome. I, I love not painting walls

weyland]: 00:02:14

Nick.

[justin]: 00:02:14

in a house, you know like that's One of my favorite things to do is to not paint walls in a hous.

weyland]: 00:02:19

Favorite hobby. Not painting

[justin]: 00:02:21

Yeah,

weyland]: 00:02:21

Will.

[justin]: 00:02:22

exactly exactly Faking. Hate it. Um, but yeah, speaking of hating it, Obviously we want to avoid hating dungeons and

[justin]: 00:02:33

dragons, so obviously the first question I think we should ask is what do you think causes a particular Dem to lose

[justin]: 00:02:41

excitement about being a dungeon master? And and obviously you know this isn't talking about those people who were foisted

[justin]: 00:02:49

into being a dungeon master. This is for the people who heard about it were super excited to try. it. Loved it, and

[justin]: 00:02:56

then slowly just the flame went away.

weyland]: 00:03:00

Yeah, honestly, I think that it comes down to a few factors right and I think it's the same. It's well, not

weyland]: 00:03:06

the same, but similar factors. To what makes you feel burned out or unexcited about any any other part of

weyland]: 00:03:13

your life, like your work or anything right where it's like monotony, mixed with with strain or overload,

weyland]: 00:03:21

Could be another word for that mixed with just not feeling. You know. well, I was going to say not feeling stretched.

weyland]: 00:03:30

I guess that that's why people hate monotony, because they just hate not experiencing something new, not feeling

weyland]: 00:03:35

stretched. And so I think that that's kind of a common issue with Deming is because it takes a lot out of you.

weyland]: 00:03:43

You know you're planning a lot, whether you're doing a pre written adventure or you know, self written it. It

weyland]: 00:03:50

just takes a lot of effort from you, and then sometimes you and the players get into a rut where you're doing

weyland]: 00:03:56

the same thing. You know. you're in the middle of a big campaign And it's not like you Just suddenly break off.

weyland]: 00:04:02

Or at least it doesn't feel like you can suddenly just break off and do something different and

[justin]: 00:04:06

Hm,

weyland]: 00:04:06

that's going to get to you. You know,

[justin]: 00:04:09

Yeah, that's a really good point. you know, I think, Excuse me, I think a little bit about like relationships. And

[justin]: 00:04:17

how when in marriage you know you get complacent. You do the same things over and over again because it's more efficient,

[justin]: 00:04:24

you know, quote quote, but it tends to make things more like Lester, Um, so being a d. M. how, how can we and I'm maybe

[justin]: 00:04:37

asking this for myself. How can we like adding new things or try new methods like? I guess you know. Is that a question?

weyland]: 00:04:48

You know. that's a question I can work with. Thank you.

[justin]: 00:04:51

Yeah,

weyland]: 00:04:51

M. How can we add in new things? Honestly? it just comes down to to planning, really, and self awareness. Because

weyland]: 00:05:02

one of the biggest things that happens, and like I said, this happens in other parts of life as well as damming,

weyland]: 00:05:08

is that we just get into the grind, you know, and we're just going day to day session to session. And and you,

weyland]: 00:05:17

and you feel You barely have enough time to plan for the normal stuff, let alone thinking about. Hey, am

weyland]: 00:05:22

I happy with this? Can I change it? And so, taking some time to to plan and think about how you want to change.

weyland]: 00:05:31

it is huge, which, which is one reason why, one of the things I recommend is you know, doing a more major

weyland]: 00:05:39

switch up. just kind of on the fly. Um, So like if you're doing a campaign, let's say and your players kind of

weyland]: 00:05:47

nat Stopping point. You've been feeling burned out for a second. That's a great time to do. you know at least

weyland]: 00:05:52

a couple o different things. One is you know. Talk with another player to the side may be leading up to this

weyland]: 00:06:00

and be like Hey, we're going to be hitting a stopping point. I would love for you to kind of run a few sessions

weyland]: 00:06:08

as a side quest, and it could be as entirely different setting different characters. or it could be you know

weyland]: 00:06:14

a side quest for for the S players. you know. Um, that's and then that would give you the time that you need

weyland]: 00:06:22

to re evaluate your deming and be like Okay. Where could I spice things up? you know, or you know, if you're

weyland]: 00:06:31

coming to natural breaking point, you could let's say that you pre write your own content and you're like,

weyland]: 00:06:38

Oh, I'm tired of writing new content every week. Vhen, when you're coming to natural, break point, think okay,

weyland]: 00:06:45

Maybe you could just pop in Pre written stuff that other people have made right. Um, and there's so much of

weyland]: 00:06:52

it out there, so it's like And that would give you kind of the weight off your chest of having to create everything

weyland]: 00:06:57

by yourself. You know,

[justin]: 00:06:59

Yeah, I also wonder if you could do that even even aside from a natural breaking point, Like, let's say, you're in a dungeon

[justin]: 00:07:12

and you're chasing the big bad boss, you know, and it's kind of a slug. The players, you can tell they're kind of getting

[justin]: 00:07:19

bored with the dungeon. Well, they come into a room that obviously has this big red button that no player can resist

[justin]: 00:07:26

pushing. and boom, they're transplayed their transport To another. You know plain where they're doing something completely

[justin]: 00:07:34

different. They thought they were going to finish the story, but now they're like who you know. It kind of changes.

[justin]: 00:07:39

the. because, because when you get in a routine, your players will also get in a routine. And so when you can kind

[justin]: 00:07:47

of shock their system by being like No, Something completely different. They're gonna be like who. Wake up. What's going on?

[justin]: 00:07:55

you know, but I do think you have to do that a little bit right. Like if you're in the middle of Boss fight and he's

[justin]: 00:08:00

about to die, just let him die and then do the switch up.

weyland]: 00:08:05

Yeah,

[justin]: 00:08:05

you know,

weyland]: 00:08:05

yeah,

[justin]: 00:08:05

like like, Don't pull the rug out from under your player's feet.

weyland]: 00:08:09

Yeah, but I love your suggestion because it's like. Hey, there's many ways that you can mit adventure. Give

weyland]: 00:08:16

the players a different feel to the adventure Right and it doesn't necessarily have to be. You know. After

weyland]: 00:08:22

they've Ben. like the the check point boss for the

[justin]: 00:08:27

No,

weyland]: 00:08:27

adventure. you know. And so I have a question. like what right now do you regularly do to keep excited about

weyland]: 00:08:35

D and d?

[justin]: 00:08:39

Well, I just started keeping better notes of what my players talk about or do during the session And this is more

[justin]: 00:08:48

for like, If I come up with an n, p. C name that is important for one of the players, I write that down and I also

[justin]: 00:08:57

have a habit of, or at least I'm working on this habit. Excuse me,

[justin]: 00:09:05

Thank you of writing every day a little bit, and I have a certain amount that I write. And so when I look at the notes

[justin]: 00:09:15

of the previous session and I see this name Hesrael, and I know that Oh, that has to do with my wife's character and

[justin]: 00:09:23

part of a new kind of art that they're going through That they don't even know about that kind of excites me because

[justin]: 00:09:29

it's like, Oh, I get to plan this thing for them. So really, I guess what I'm saying is pulling out though Those interesting

[justin]: 00:09:36

points in the sessions that I know are interesting to me because I know that they are going to be interesting to my

[justin]: 00:09:43

players and then planning time to expand on those even if I'll never get to them. right. Um, That excites me a little

[justin]: 00:09:51

bit. I think, also, thinking of the story in the long term, and being like, Oh wow, this thing is going to happen and

[justin]: 00:10:00

I'm kind of excited for it and I can't wait to get there. Um, that helps me as well, and I have to say, one other thing

[justin]: 00:10:09

that I like is feeling okay. telling my players Hey, can we skip this week?

weyland]: 00:10:18

Yeah, I totally agree.

[justin]: 00:10:19

M

weyland]: 00:10:19

You know if you're if you're feeling burned out on. one thing that you definitely shouldn't do is just pile

weyland]: 00:10:26

on more burn out. You know

[justin]: 00:10:28

All right.

weyland]: 00:10:29

you should be open with your players about. I love that.

[justin]: 00:10:32

Yeah, one other thing I did notice as well is that in some sessions I'm quicker to like. Okay, everyone's here. Let's

[justin]: 00:10:39

get into the game in other sessions When I'm just like tired or something. I let the I let the pre game chit chat go

[justin]: 00:10:49

on a little bit longer, and that seems to relax me and kind of help me kind of distress, a little bit before the game,

[justin]: 00:10:58

So that way I can take care of the game and actually give a better Experen, And I find in those instances I'm a little

[justin]: 00:11:04

bit better at improvising and things like that, so I think you know, outside of D and D, just making sure that you

[justin]: 00:11:11

are relaxing yourself on purpose and you are taking time to distress. whatever that means for you, I think those

[justin]: 00:11:19

are very, very big parts as well.

weyland]: 00:11:21

Yeah, I totally agree, and I think the thing that you brought up about you know, waiting like at the start

weyland]: 00:11:28

of the session and kind of letting that friendly vibe continue, and kind of help you get the energy. I think that's

weyland]: 00:11:35

an important aspect here is that you know. I think there's two issues that a lot of campaigns have that can

weyland]: 00:11:41

lead to a D. M. just not feeling excited. One is if you know, your friendly hangout suddenly just became all

weyland]: 00:11:48

business, you know, and you're just Okay. Let's get through this session. I have a lot planned. Then it's like

weyland]: 00:11:54

Hey, you're kind of you know, putting the cart before the horse a little bit and putting you know, having a

weyland]: 00:12:00

good time, which is, I mean, that's why we play dandy, right. You put that ahead of that. Now on the other end

weyland]: 00:12:06

of the spectrum, you have a real issue of of pacing where the d. m and the players just aren't super engaged

weyland]: 00:12:14

because the game isn't going at a pace and isn't requiring a lot out of them. Because they're just going so slow,

weyland]: 00:12:20

you know, And like this can happen in battles. I see so much in battles where it's like Oh, the D M isn't keeping

weyland]: 00:12:27

the players turn short. That players are spending forever thinking about their moves while they're on their turn

weyland]: 00:12:34

instead of beforehand. Or you know, the d M is letting the players discuss their next move. Uh, like as in,

weyland]: 00:12:43

just like in like general moves like way too long. If you can cut down on those or set a timer, or or any

weyland]: 00:12:50

of them Kind of tools that help you keep things just snapping and spinning along. then your game is going to

weyland]: 00:12:57

have a lot more energy just naturally because things are gonna be coming much faster. So yeah,

[justin]: 00:13:04

Yeah, I agree. I, I think going back to you know writing excuses. I love that podcast. One thing they always say is you

[justin]: 00:13:13

know if if things start get getting boring, you need to have the bad guys kick down the door, and that leads me to

[justin]: 00:13:20

believe. So the topic of the podcast today is how to stay excited about being a dungeon master, and then kind of parenthesis,

[justin]: 00:13:28

avoid dam, burn out, and I think that's only one half of staying excited to be a D. M. So Now, speaking of spectrums

[justin]: 00:13:36

on one end, there's kind of d. M. burn out where you know you're doing too much. You've loaded yourself too much and

[justin]: 00:13:43

you can't handle the weight. and then, on the other hand you're you're bored, right, You feel like things are going

[justin]: 00:13:49

too slow, And I think back to what you said about being self aware. You really need to understand which side of the spectrum

[justin]: 00:13:56

you're on both in life and in your deming career, Because if you're bored, you Want to add more metaphorical weight onto

[justin]: 00:14:07

your shoulders like you want to add better challenges, so you need to look up rules that you don't know really how to

[justin]: 00:14:13

run, and add that to your campaign. If you're overwhelmed, you need to pull back and simplify and kind of reach that happy

[justin]: 00:14:21

middle. You know what I mean.

weyland]: 00:14:23

Yeah, I totally agree. I think that people have very different issues, but you know, I really like how you talked

weyland]: 00:14:31

about writing earlier, because I thought about that and in my personal life I noticed a huge difference when

weyland]: 00:14:38

I'm regularly like writing my thoughts down, specifically, kind of keeping a journal like a daily journal

weyland]: 00:14:45

because it helps me contextualize what I'm doing. It helps me think about what I want to achieve. It also helps

weyland]: 00:14:51

me just like put into Words what I'm feeling. And and especially when I'm feeling, burn out. it's important

weyland]: 00:14:58

for me to realize that instead of just like having it in the back of my mind that like, Oh, man, I feel really

weyland]: 00:15:03

tired or Oh, I'm not interested in

[justin]: 00:15:06

Yeah,

weyland]: 00:15:06

whatever right, and I think that's true for deming to where it's you know. if you can make time for you know,

weyland]: 00:15:14

just introspection. Uh, maybe you know if you guys do journal personally, you know Journal about being a D.

weyland]: 00:15:21

M. You know That would help you have that introspection that you need to decide which end of the spectrum you're on.

weyland]: 00:15:28

Like you were talking about whether you're doing too much and you need some help from other players, or you need

weyland]: 00:15:33

to just cut way back or or do a pre written adventure instead of self written, M,

[justin]: 00:15:39

Yeah,

weyland]: 00:15:39

then you'll know that, but if it's the other issue where you're just not doing enough, or the game you know

weyland]: 00:15:46

is just not meeting its full potential, because you're not doing a few simple things, then Kind of writing, Doing

weyland]: 00:15:53

that introspection will help you avoid that as well.

[justin]: 00:15:56

Yeah, you know, I really like that one thing I realized as you were speaking, I think we need to do two more episodes

[justin]: 00:16:03

on this kind of topic, one on like things specifically to do with Burn out,

weyland]: 00:16:08

Yeah,

[justin]: 00:16:08

and then one on things to do with boredom. And I think you know we could come up with some pretty good tools or resources,

[justin]: 00:16:16

but I really like that suggestion to journal, and obviously Ou know everyone journals differently, so keep that in mind,

[justin]: 00:16:24

but I think it's fascinating that this question of how to They're excited about being a dungeon master. A lot of it

[justin]: 00:16:29

is about self regulation, self understanding, and to be honest, I'm not a huge fan of of the term self care, but it

[justin]: 00:16:39

is about caring for yourself. You know, if you had a friend who was just super stressed out wasn't getting enough

[justin]: 00:16:46

sleep, You tell them to go take a nap right. There's nothing wrong with taking a nap right before your Dungeon Master

[justin]: 00:16:53

game. Your session, you know, but often We look at taking a nap as childish, but you know it could be a powerful thin,

[justin]: 00:17:00

but that's just an example, but I think it's fascinating that with this topic a lot of it is outside of Dungeons and Dragons.

[justin]: 00:17:08

how you're running your life.

weyland]: 00:17:10

Yeah, I totally agree, and that's something I'm really glad you mentioned at the end because like if you're

weyland]: 00:17:16

feeling burned out in other parts of your life, Deming can certainly help if you're if you're not burned out,

weyland]: 00:17:25

but like boredom. or it's something like that. D. M can help because you're spending time with friends like

weyland]: 00:17:31

I think, regardless of where you're at, whether it's boredom or burn out, spending time with people that you

weyland]: 00:17:38

care about and having a good time that No help regardless, But as a dungeon master you just really need to realize

weyland]: 00:17:46

that that it does require a good amount out of you. And so if you're feeling burned out in every other part

weyland]: 00:17:51

of your life, then I don't know if you know being a super active dungeon master is for you right now. Unless

weyland]: 00:18:00

you can do some of that introspection elsewhere and find out how to you Now find some balance. you know.

[justin]: 00:18:07

Yeah, yeah, I mean to that point, if you are reaching a breaking point, it might be time to kind of shed the mantle

[justin]: 00:18:16

of dungeon master for a time and just be a player. you know. Go find

weyland]: 00:18:20

Yeah,

[justin]: 00:18:20

a game where you can play. Have fun, and just enjoy the game again, and then you can come back and be a dungeon master

[justin]: 00:18:27

and kind of take on all that stress and so forth.

weyland]: 00:18:30

Yeah, I totally agree, And if you do that, just as you know, because I know a lot of people who were dungeon

weyland]: 00:18:37

masters for a while, and then you know they switched to being player, and they kind of have a hard time switching

weyland]: 00:18:41

back to being a dungeon master. What I'd really recommend is you know if you do that and you definitely should.

weyland]: 00:18:49

If you're feeling burned out, then you know a way to stay excited about or get that kind of excitement up

weyland]: 00:18:57

about being a dam. Is you know, After you've taken a second and you've been a player for for a bit, start

weyland]: 00:19:04

studying a new campaign or a new one shot, or just small adventure or something you know, study something that

weyland]: 00:19:11

someone else made. Get ideas. you know, just because you have a lot more time, since you're not actively demming,

weyland]: 00:19:19

and it kind of can give you the luxurious approach to preparing, which is like Hey, you're preparing out of excitement

weyland]: 00:19:25

versus need, Because you got a session coming up and then when you do And to be a d. M again, you'll have you

weyland]: 00:19:32

know some sessions ready, you know, just just from your previous prep, and you'll be excited about him because

weyland]: 00:19:37

you've been. You've had this break.

[justin]: 00:19:40

Yeah, I like. I like that so much. Um, so all in all, Summary today, if you are having trouble being excited about

[justin]: 00:19:48

being a D. M, you can either be burned out or bored, or kind of a mix of the two, and we're going to come out with

[justin]: 00:19:55

two more episodes, one on each. but our top recommendations is care for yourself. You know, think about your life as a whole,

[justin]: 00:20:03

and how being a Dungeon Master impact set, and vice versa, and look at it holistically be self aware and be self

[justin]: 00:20:10

Passionate. Uh, and listen to our future episodes to learn how to be less bored and less burnt out. Any other things,

[justin]: 00:20:17

you'd like to add, Tanner?

weyland]: 00:20:19

Uh, uh, beyond the fact that I think you're all amazing and I hope that you're taking care

[justin]: 00:20:24

Hm,

weyland]: 00:20:24

of yourselves. No, it's been great talking with you, Justin.

[justin]: 00:20:28

Excellent, Well, likewise, Tanner, and we will see you all next week for another amazing episode, But until then let's