Improve Your Roleplaying Game Immersion with Alex Aries

[justin]: 00:00:04

welcome back to how to be a better d m i'm your host justin lewis

[justin]: 00:00:08

here with my brother in arms tanner wayland and today we are being joined by

[justin]: 00:00:12

a very special guest alex areas i hope i'm pronouncing that but we'll

[alex]: 00:00:16

hm

[justin]: 00:00:16

let him introduce himself a little bit in a second the goal of today's show

[justin]: 00:00:20

is to help you tell better stories as u d m sessions of d and

[justin]: 00:00:23

d and obviously we want to immerse ourselves in story and you

[alex]: 00:00:29

oh

[justin]: 00:00:29

want your players to have an extremely positive effect but to immerse yourself or to

[justin]: 00:00:34

have them immerse them it requires a lot of work and how do you do

[justin]: 00:00:40

that so that's the question we're going to talk about today

[alex]: 00:00:43

oh

[justin]: 00:00:43

with alex so just to get started alex tell the audience a little bit about

[justin]: 00:00:47

yourself

[alex]: 00:00:48

sure like you said i'm alex ares i'm the

[justin]: 00:00:51

yeah

[alex]: 00:00:51

co founder

[justin]: 00:00:52

yah

[alex]: 00:00:52

of game play candles it's a scented

[justin]: 00:00:53

ah

[alex]: 00:00:53

candle company

[justin]: 00:00:54

yeah

[alex]: 00:00:54

with sense designed for dan d tabletop adventures i've been a d m of fifth

[alex]: 00:00:59

edition advent

[justin]: 00:01:00

ah

[alex]: 00:01:00

since twenty fourteen

weyland]: 00:01:01

oh

[alex]: 00:01:02

um and my day job

weyland]: 00:01:03

m

[alex]: 00:01:03

is that of a

[justin]: 00:01:04

oh

[alex]: 00:01:04

manufacturing engineer

[justin]: 00:01:05

oh

[alex]: 00:01:05

so whenever i'm producing widgets to sell i feel right at

[justin]: 00:01:09

oh

[alex]: 00:01:09

home at least as much there as i do around gaming temple

[justin]: 00:01:13

well

weyland]: 00:01:13

that's awesome

[justin]: 00:01:15

yeah

[alex]: 00:01:15

m

[justin]: 00:01:15

that's like

[alex]: 00:01:16

yeah

[justin]: 00:01:16

that's like a perfect match it feels like you know

[alex]: 00:01:19

yeah it's a very natural evolution yep

[justin]: 00:01:22

for sure well like i said our topic today is immersion and so the first

[justin]: 00:01:28

question i have and obviously tanner has you know a full

[alex]: 00:01:32

yeah

[justin]: 00:01:32

load of questions

[alex]: 00:01:33

yeah

[justin]: 00:01:33

on his own if you have any question that you'd

[alex]: 00:01:35

yeah

[justin]: 00:01:35

like to talk about filter and bring up the first question

[alex]: 00:01:37

m

[justin]: 00:01:37

i have

[alex]: 00:01:38

m

[justin]: 00:01:38

is where do you start when trying to create more emersion for your players

[alex]: 00:01:45

gosh yeah i think that you

[justin]: 00:01:48

oh

[alex]: 00:01:48

know there's no single prong in the front as it

[justin]: 00:01:53

oh

[alex]: 00:01:53

were around your gaming table but i do like to design my immersion with

[justin]: 00:01:58

okay

[alex]: 00:01:58

my players in mine and

[justin]: 00:02:02

oh

[alex]: 00:02:02

i think as a good d m you're there to sort of chaperone

[justin]: 00:02:04

yeah

[alex]: 00:02:05

and curate

[justin]: 00:02:05

oh

[alex]: 00:02:06

an experience and in a story

[justin]: 00:02:08

yeah

[alex]: 00:02:09

that everyone can

[justin]: 00:02:09

oh

[alex]: 00:02:09

contribute to but being a d m you have this unique opportunity to bring a

[alex]: 00:02:14

little extra pazz to the table so i look at the players and look at

[alex]: 00:02:19

their interest and their characters and i think that's a great place to start

[justin]: 00:02:23

oh awesome could you this might be a little bit hard off the top of

[justin]: 00:02:29

your head

[alex]: 00:02:29

uh

[justin]: 00:02:29

but do you have any examples to kind of show the audience a little bit

[alex]: 00:02:34

ah obol show i mean i could

[justin]: 00:02:36

well sorry not

[alex]: 00:02:37

yeah

[justin]: 00:02:39

metaphorically show the audience through

[alex]: 00:02:40

oh

[justin]: 00:02:41

our work

[alex]: 00:02:42

yeah

[justin]: 00:02:42

sorry

[alex]: 00:02:42

yeah no problem well you know we have a barbarian in the in one of

[alex]: 00:02:49

my campaigns that i had previously deemed

[justin]: 00:02:52

a

[alex]: 00:02:52

part of their back story involved a very specific description of their their life on

[alex]: 00:02:59

the plains as a nomad with their nomadic tribe and um m i found a

[justin]: 00:03:06

yeah

[alex]: 00:03:06

food recipe that you know might be considered that of nomadic people's you know s

[alex]: 00:03:12

like a flat bread so there's no leavening or anything like that so

weyland]: 00:03:16

great

[alex]: 00:03:17

just sort of i made that i'd like to cook a lot of a bit

[alex]: 00:03:21

of a gormand

[justin]: 00:03:21

m

[alex]: 00:03:22

but i made that and just called it you know terra's

[justin]: 00:03:26

yeah

[alex]: 00:03:26

flat bread or whatever and that was her characters

weyland]: 00:03:28

m

[alex]: 00:03:29

you know so

[justin]: 00:03:29

oh

[alex]: 00:03:30

umyeah'just sort of incorporating her character

[justin]: 00:03:33

yeah

[alex]: 00:03:33

into into the night as a

[justin]: 00:03:36

m

[alex]: 00:03:36

whole

[justin]: 00:03:37

m that's

[alex]: 00:03:38

yeah

[justin]: 00:03:38

really

weyland]: 00:03:38

i

[justin]: 00:03:38

cool

weyland]: 00:03:38

love that

[alex]: 00:03:39

yeah

weyland]: 00:03:39

i love that especially because i think that nowadays i don't know

[alex]: 00:03:43

ah

weyland]: 00:03:43

people

[alex]: 00:03:44

oh

weyland]: 00:03:44

kind of expect

[justin]: 00:03:44

m

weyland]: 00:03:44

snacks at a lot

[justin]: 00:03:46

uh

weyland]: 00:03:46

of the gaming like any

[alex]: 00:03:48

ah

weyland]: 00:03:48

time

[justin]: 00:03:48

uh

weyland]: 00:03:48

they come to the table

[alex]: 00:03:48

hm

weyland]: 00:03:49

for a

[justin]: 00:03:49

oh

weyland]: 00:03:49

session but we always think what's

[alex]: 00:03:51

m

weyland]: 00:03:51

easy you know just some snacks from the store you know

[alex]: 00:03:54

hm

weyland]: 00:03:54

mass produce doritos whatever else

[alex]: 00:03:56

m

weyland]: 00:03:56

it is right

[alex]: 00:03:57

yeah

weyland]: 00:03:58

but it's like hey and some people take

[justin]: 00:04:00

yeah

weyland]: 00:04:00

a step further where they actually make

[justin]: 00:04:02

yeah m

weyland]: 00:04:02

like deserts or snacks and

[alex]: 00:04:04

hm

weyland]: 00:04:05

i love that you didn't just be like hey i baked

[justin]: 00:04:08

yeah

weyland]: 00:04:08

bread

[justin]: 00:04:09

oh

weyland]: 00:04:09

joy

[alex]: 00:04:09

yeah

weyland]: 00:04:10

but

[alex]: 00:04:10

yeah

weyland]: 00:04:10

like you were like hey

[alex]: 00:04:12

ah

weyland]: 00:04:12

here's they're from a nomadic tribe like

[alex]: 00:04:15

yeah

weyland]: 00:04:16

this is what they'd be eating

[alex]: 00:04:17

m

weyland]: 00:04:18

let's

[alex]: 00:04:18

yeah

weyland]: 00:04:18

bring

[alex]: 00:04:18

i mean

weyland]: 00:04:18

you into the world

[justin]: 00:04:19

h

[alex]: 00:04:19

and you can even you know you can even take those deritos and just pour

[alex]: 00:04:24

them

[justin]: 00:04:24

yeah

[alex]: 00:04:24

into a bowl and call it something on brand for your adventure and that

[justin]: 00:04:28

oh

[alex]: 00:04:28

just

weyland]: 00:04:28

exactly

[alex]: 00:04:28

creates an extra memory point that makes the night sort of stand out

[justin]: 00:04:33

m

weyland]: 00:04:33

it's true you know

[alex]: 00:04:34

yeah

weyland]: 00:04:34

like

[justin]: 00:04:35

m

weyland]: 00:04:35

i think that

[justin]: 00:04:35

oh

weyland]: 00:04:35

you could take anything and

[alex]: 00:04:37

ah

weyland]: 00:04:37

it would be funny in fact and i think that would be blest to like

weyland]: 00:04:41

come up with a way the

[justin]: 00:04:42

yeah

weyland]: 00:04:43

each random

[alex]: 00:04:43

yeah

weyland]: 00:04:43

snack that gets brought

[alex]: 00:04:45

yeah

weyland]: 00:04:45

somehow

[justin]: 00:04:45

oh

weyland]: 00:04:45

plays into something you

[alex]: 00:04:47

yeah

weyland]: 00:04:47

know

[alex]: 00:04:48

yeah yeah that'd

[justin]: 00:04:49

yeah

[alex]: 00:04:49

be

weyland]: 00:04:49

yah

[alex]: 00:04:49

that's a great that'd be like a great

[justin]: 00:04:50

ah

[alex]: 00:04:51

little tradition to have at the start of any game m

[justin]: 00:04:54

for sure

weyland]: 00:04:54

i know i totally agree

[alex]: 00:04:55

m hm

weyland]: 00:04:57

so i did have i

[justin]: 00:04:58

oh

weyland]: 00:04:58

had another question about

[alex]: 00:05:00

yeah

weyland]: 00:05:00

immersion

[alex]: 00:05:01

m

weyland]: 00:05:02

uh

[justin]: 00:05:02

m

weyland]: 00:05:02

and this is kind of like a little bit of a question about how you

weyland]: 00:05:04

got started

[justin]: 00:05:05

oh

weyland]: 00:05:05

with you know game play candles before you started it did you use a lot

weyland]: 00:05:11

of candles

[justin]: 00:05:11

m

weyland]: 00:05:12

in your game play like

[justin]: 00:05:13

oh

weyland]: 00:05:13

in your sessions so he sat

[alex]: 00:05:14

um

weyland]: 00:05:14

bane

[alex]: 00:05:16

not in my sessions but i was a big fan of scented

[justin]: 00:05:20

oh

[alex]: 00:05:20

candles in general um

weyland]: 00:05:21

course

[alex]: 00:05:22

and then i discovered

[justin]: 00:05:23

oh

[alex]: 00:05:23

the next layer that being fan

[justin]: 00:05:26

yeah

[alex]: 00:05:26

to see inspired scented candles and there

weyland]: 00:05:29

yes

[alex]: 00:05:29

are there are plethera of companies out there doing doing good stuff in that realm

[alex]: 00:05:34

but none of them

[justin]: 00:05:35

oh

[alex]: 00:05:36

were like specific

[justin]: 00:05:36

yeah

[alex]: 00:05:37

to d

[justin]: 00:05:37

i

[alex]: 00:05:37

and d more specific to you know like the classes or the characters or settings

[alex]: 00:05:42

you might find in a d and d adventure

[justin]: 00:05:45

oh

[alex]: 00:05:45

and

weyland]: 00:05:45

hm

[alex]: 00:05:45

since that was already such a big part of my life

[justin]: 00:05:48

oh

[alex]: 00:05:49

just sort of naturally fell into

[justin]: 00:05:50

yeah

[alex]: 00:05:50

it that and i was spending away too much money on

[justin]: 00:05:53

okay

[alex]: 00:05:53

some really nice ended candles so i thought

[justin]: 00:05:54

yeah

weyland]: 00:05:54

yeah

[alex]: 00:05:55

i thought i could do it cheaper and it was good enough that people

weyland]: 00:05:57

good

[alex]: 00:05:57

wanted

weyland]: 00:05:57

idea

[alex]: 00:05:58

them and were interested

[justin]: 00:05:59

m

weyland]: 00:06:00

that's awesome

[justin]: 00:06:01

yeah

[alex]: 00:06:02

m

weyland]: 00:06:02

uh and

[alex]: 00:06:03

yeah

weyland]: 00:06:03

so now

[justin]: 00:06:03

oh

weyland]: 00:06:04

well i'm just curious how often

[justin]: 00:06:05

oh

weyland]: 00:06:06

are you playing d and d nowadays

[alex]: 00:06:08

we have i have a weekly

[justin]: 00:06:09

oh

[alex]: 00:06:09

session i actually met with the group last night

[justin]: 00:06:13

m

[alex]: 00:06:13

and i d m to one shot so our our d

[justin]: 00:06:16

m

[alex]: 00:06:16

m could so i should say i've been forever d m except in the past

[alex]: 00:06:22

i'd say six weeks i've now been a player

[justin]: 00:06:24

oh

[alex]: 00:06:24

character for the first time in like you know

weyland]: 00:06:26

oh

[justin]: 00:06:26

oh

[alex]: 00:06:26

almost nine years

[justin]: 00:06:27

wow

[alex]: 00:06:27

so

weyland]: 00:06:27

and grat

[alex]: 00:06:28

yeah

weyland]: 00:06:29

that's

[justin]: 00:06:29

we'll

[alex]: 00:06:29

it's

weyland]: 00:06:29

a

[justin]: 00:06:29

tell us

weyland]: 00:06:29

that's a big

[justin]: 00:06:30

oh

weyland]: 00:06:30

thing

[alex]: 00:06:31

yeah

[justin]: 00:06:32

you

[alex]: 00:06:32

i

[justin]: 00:06:33

gotta you got to tell us about your character now like

[alex]: 00:06:35

oh

[justin]: 00:06:35

this is

[alex]: 00:06:36

man

[justin]: 00:06:36

like a big thing you know

[alex]: 00:06:37

well as as an engineer obviously

[justin]: 00:06:39

uh

[alex]: 00:06:40

i went with artificer

[justin]: 00:06:41

h

[alex]: 00:06:41

um and so

[justin]: 00:06:43

oh

[alex]: 00:06:43

i am an armor artificer named arturo iron heart

[justin]: 00:06:46

m

[alex]: 00:06:47

and i'm a fifty five year old

[justin]: 00:06:49

yeah

[alex]: 00:06:49

bitter man who has one leg amputated but you can't tell

[justin]: 00:06:53

yeah

[alex]: 00:06:53

because of my armor

[justin]: 00:06:53

oh

weyland]: 00:06:54

ah

[alex]: 00:06:55

and um

[justin]: 00:06:56

uh

[alex]: 00:06:57

and yeah i

[justin]: 00:06:58

uh

[alex]: 00:06:58

now

[justin]: 00:06:58

oh

[alex]: 00:06:59

it's funny one

[justin]: 00:07:00

right

[alex]: 00:07:00

of the things that really stood out to me as a player character instead of

[alex]: 00:07:04

a d

[justin]: 00:07:04

oh

[alex]: 00:07:04

m is you don't

[justin]: 00:07:06

oh

[alex]: 00:07:06

know everything which sounds like you know readily obvious and appa but i made the

[alex]: 00:07:13

mistake of assuming

[justin]: 00:07:14

yeah oh

[alex]: 00:07:16

assuming details of the perceived bad guys and and just went

[justin]: 00:07:20

uh

[alex]: 00:07:20

in swinging and then afterwards

[justin]: 00:07:22

uh

[alex]: 00:07:22

my d

[justin]: 00:07:22

oh

[alex]: 00:07:23

who bless his heart he's ming for the first time and i'd pull

weyland]: 00:07:27

oh

[alex]: 00:07:27

this

[justin]: 00:07:27

ah

[alex]: 00:07:28

but i just go in and

[justin]: 00:07:29

yeah

[alex]: 00:07:29

it was a full murder hobo rampage and it was

weyland]: 00:07:32

uh

[alex]: 00:07:32

like you didn't even ask what they looked like

weyland]: 00:07:33

h

[alex]: 00:07:34

it was like policeman i killed like the town guards

[justin]: 00:07:36

uh

[alex]: 00:07:37

i thought

weyland]: 00:07:37

yeah

[alex]: 00:07:37

they were bandits but anyway yeah

weyland]: 00:07:40

and one of

[alex]: 00:07:41

it

weyland]: 00:07:41

them

[alex]: 00:07:41

is

weyland]: 00:07:41

that

[justin]: 00:07:41

yeah

[alex]: 00:07:41

fun

weyland]: 00:07:41

was the last day before

[alex]: 00:07:42

ye

weyland]: 00:07:42

they retired

[justin]: 00:07:43

m

[alex]: 00:07:43

well

weyland]: 00:07:43

they were

[alex]: 00:07:44

one

[justin]: 00:07:44

yeah

weyland]: 00:07:44

excited

[alex]: 00:07:44

of them

weyland]: 00:07:44

to go home to their family

[alex]: 00:07:46

one of them was the king's

weyland]: 00:07:47

yeah

[alex]: 00:07:48

one of them was the king's brother so that sort of altered

weyland]: 00:07:50

course

[alex]: 00:07:50

the entire

[justin]: 00:07:51

m

[alex]: 00:07:51

arc of the campaign but you know if it's his first time dim i feel

[alex]: 00:07:56

like it's appropriate to throw a little

[justin]: 00:07:57

yeah

[alex]: 00:07:57

murder hobo is you know

[justin]: 00:07:59

yeah

[alex]: 00:07:59

his way keep him

weyland]: 00:08:01

yeah

[alex]: 00:08:01

on his toes

[justin]: 00:08:02

yeah

weyland]: 00:08:02

exactly exactly

[alex]: 00:08:03

yeah

[justin]: 00:08:03

honestly i feel like certain dams would kind of create that scenario on purpose just

[justin]: 00:08:08

to see what the players would do and you know

[alex]: 00:08:11

yeah yeah that's true although you

[justin]: 00:08:14

oh

[alex]: 00:08:14

know once i get to know a group pretty well i fear to give them

[alex]: 00:08:20

enough rope to hang themselves with

[justin]: 00:08:22

yeah

[alex]: 00:08:22

you know

weyland]: 00:08:22

uh

[justin]: 00:08:23

right right it depends

weyland]: 00:08:24

h

[alex]: 00:08:24

yeah

[justin]: 00:08:24

on if you're a nice d m or or a normal

[alex]: 00:08:26

m

[justin]: 00:08:26

d m

[alex]: 00:08:27

uh

[justin]: 00:08:28

but

[alex]: 00:08:28

uh yeah

[justin]: 00:08:29

being in kind of fortunate situation you

[alex]: 00:08:31

yeah

[justin]: 00:08:31

are you know a forever d m who is now

[alex]: 00:08:33

yeah

[justin]: 00:08:34

being a player how

[alex]: 00:08:35

m

[justin]: 00:08:35

does immersion change with the changing roles so what are kind of in your opinion

[justin]: 00:08:44

in a perfect world what are

[alex]: 00:08:45

hm

[justin]: 00:08:45

the responsibilities for players to create immersion or what can they do versus what

[alex]: 00:08:51

oh

[justin]: 00:08:51

does a d m do

[alex]: 00:08:52

yeah that's a great question you know this sort of goes to my general philosophy

[justin]: 00:08:57

oh

[alex]: 00:08:57

on what makes a successful game night i called the game night try facta there's

[alex]: 00:09:02

there's role play there's combat and discovery and i think you actually your podcast mentioned

[alex]: 00:09:07

this in a

[justin]: 00:09:08

oh

[alex]: 00:09:08

previous episode um one of your friends who as a writer i think described

[justin]: 00:09:13

ye

[alex]: 00:09:13

four things who was like combat role play puzzles and scovery

[justin]: 00:09:16

m

[alex]: 00:09:17

or

[justin]: 00:09:17

oh

[alex]: 00:09:17

something

weyland]: 00:09:17

hm

[alex]: 00:09:17

like that

[justin]: 00:09:18

i

weyland]: 00:09:18

yeah

[justin]: 00:09:18

think

weyland]: 00:09:18

yeah

[justin]: 00:09:18

that was rob maybe

weyland]: 00:09:19

i feel like that

[alex]: 00:09:19

yeah

weyland]: 00:09:20

was rob

[justin]: 00:09:20

my

[alex]: 00:09:21

yeah and

[justin]: 00:09:21

yeah

[alex]: 00:09:21

that just really rang true

[justin]: 00:09:22

yeah

[alex]: 00:09:22

with me although i just keep it down to three

[justin]: 00:09:25

oh

[alex]: 00:09:25

output puzzles in discovery because game night tetrahedron just doesn't have

[justin]: 00:09:28

yeah

[alex]: 00:09:28

the same ring to it you know

[justin]: 00:09:30

uh

weyland]: 00:09:30

ah

[alex]: 00:09:31

but but

[justin]: 00:09:32

h yeah

[alex]: 00:09:33

as a player i think role play really falls

[justin]: 00:09:36

yeah

[alex]: 00:09:38

falls on your shoulders not only yourself like an individual player but all the players

[alex]: 00:09:43

there obviously the d m will touch each one of those things and probably controls

[alex]: 00:09:48

combat and a discovery a bit more but for the players now that's that's

[justin]: 00:09:55

yeah

[alex]: 00:09:55

four to six people around the table who's not the d m and they would

[alex]: 00:10:00

create the bulk of the role play if you asked me so in terms of

[alex]: 00:10:03

immersion you know keeping that role play

[justin]: 00:10:08

oh

[alex]: 00:10:09

consistent and at least you

[justin]: 00:10:10

oh

[alex]: 00:10:10

know making the attempt to make you know those fun memories around the table would

[alex]: 00:10:14

be be something you can still control very easily

[justin]: 00:10:16

oh

weyland]: 00:10:18

yeah i like that a lot

[alex]: 00:10:19

oh

weyland]: 00:10:20

because like i think

[alex]: 00:10:22

oh

weyland]: 00:10:22

if a d m doesn't really encourage their players to participate in the role play

weyland]: 00:10:27

and even like prepare things beforehand

[alex]: 00:10:31

hm

weyland]: 00:10:31

then you're just you're putting all of the immersion on yourself as a d m

weyland]: 00:10:36

and that just doesn't work you know same as how

[alex]: 00:10:38

hm

weyland]: 00:10:39

combats are very boring

[justin]: 00:10:40

m

weyland]: 00:10:40

if you know if players aren't bringing

[justin]: 00:10:42

oh

weyland]: 00:10:42

their own energy to it same

[alex]: 00:10:44

hm

weyland]: 00:10:44

for the role playing like right now and there's this is leading up to a

weyland]: 00:10:49

question for you alex but

[alex]: 00:10:51

hm

[justin]: 00:10:51

um

weyland]: 00:10:52

right now

[justin]: 00:10:52

m

[alex]: 00:10:53

yeah

[justin]: 00:10:53

oh

weyland]: 00:10:53

justin we are we're working with rob in fact on on

[justin]: 00:10:57

m

weyland]: 00:10:57

a home brew and i was and we're like as part of it we're like

weyland]: 00:11:02

including d m tips and everything like that for new d ms to kind of

weyland]: 00:11:06

branch out in their style

[alex]: 00:11:09

hm

weyland]: 00:11:09

and h and i had a tip about flash backs or like kind of mental

weyland]: 00:11:15

visions that only are about one player you know

[alex]: 00:11:18

m

weyland]: 00:11:18

and i think i've seen those done a couple different ways i've seen it where

weyland]: 00:11:23

the d m just kind of descry sit and describes everything you know it's like

weyland]: 00:11:27

oh in the vision you are doing your in a cafe and then suddenly a

weyland]: 00:11:34

stranger comes up to you and they say this and you say

[justin]: 00:11:36

oh

weyland]: 00:11:36

that you know and it like play

[alex]: 00:11:38

hm

weyland]: 00:11:38

out everything

[alex]: 00:11:40

a cut scene

weyland]: 00:11:40

and that's a cut scene essentially

[alex]: 00:11:42

yeah

weyland]: 00:11:42

right but and then i've seen the other way where it's

[justin]: 00:11:47

m

weyland]: 00:11:47

a cut scene however they've either informed the player beforehand and the players like they

weyland]: 00:11:53

essentially scripted it to some extent right ah

[alex]: 00:11:55

hm

[justin]: 00:11:56

ah

weyland]: 00:11:56

and or they just or they make it a kind of cut scene or flash

weyland]: 00:12:03

back revision that's interactive

[justin]: 00:12:05

oh

weyland]: 00:12:05

with that player and those are

[alex]: 00:12:06

hm

weyland]: 00:12:07

always so much better in my opinion

[alex]: 00:12:09

yeah yeah

weyland]: 00:12:10

go ahead

[alex]: 00:12:11

i think i think when you're when you are creating key moments in a story's

[alex]: 00:12:17

development i'd be very hesitant to not include the players even it's a little more

[alex]: 00:12:23

work or a little less convenient no one signed up to be a d m

[alex]: 00:12:27

because it's super easy and

[justin]: 00:12:28

m

[alex]: 00:12:28

convenient you know you know so

weyland]: 00:12:30

exactly

[alex]: 00:12:31

uh yeah

[justin]: 00:12:32

m

[alex]: 00:12:32

that that

[justin]: 00:12:33

oh

[alex]: 00:12:33

reminds me of this one

[justin]: 00:12:34

yeah

[alex]: 00:12:34

this one uh thing actually that happened around my table

[justin]: 00:12:36

yeah

[alex]: 00:12:37

where um the group was heading into the final area of a dungeon that had

[alex]: 00:12:45

a demon

[justin]: 00:12:46

yeah

[alex]: 00:12:46

lord in it and each and before we got into the final antechamber we decided

[justin]: 00:12:53

yeah

[alex]: 00:12:53

to take a break that was all planned because during the break i sent out

[alex]: 00:12:59

pre written slacks from the demon to each individual character and that was how i

[alex]: 00:13:04

had a flash back or in this case it was just like a mental umtelechanetic

[justin]: 00:13:08

ye

[alex]: 00:13:09

conversation just one

weyland]: 00:13:11

that's

[alex]: 00:13:11

on one

weyland]: 00:13:11

awesome

[alex]: 00:13:11

with the players where he

[justin]: 00:13:12

right

[alex]: 00:13:12

tried to tempt them to you know betray or

[justin]: 00:13:15

yeah

[alex]: 00:13:15

or what not and drew elements from their back stories

[justin]: 00:13:17

yeah

[alex]: 00:13:18

and everything to

[justin]: 00:13:18

uh

[alex]: 00:13:19

sort of make

[justin]: 00:13:20

h

[alex]: 00:13:20

make things really

[justin]: 00:13:21

ah

[alex]: 00:13:21

difficult for them to choose but yeah that that break lasted a little longer as

[alex]: 00:13:27

i you know tested out

[justin]: 00:13:28

oh

[alex]: 00:13:28

back and forth

weyland]: 00:13:28

uh

[alex]: 00:13:29

but

[justin]: 00:13:29

yeah

[alex]: 00:13:30

but yeah

[justin]: 00:13:30

so

[alex]: 00:13:30

that was

weyland]: 00:13:30

h

[alex]: 00:13:31

good

[justin]: 00:13:31

if we can i'd like to kind of narrow in on this this thing because

[justin]: 00:13:35

you know

[alex]: 00:13:35

hm

[justin]: 00:13:36

i think this is an excellent moment it actually kind of talk about a specific

[justin]: 00:13:40

tool a specific instance so in this instance i'm and your your deming online uh

[justin]: 00:13:47

you have slack channels at right

[alex]: 00:13:50

yeah at the time we were using slack

[justin]: 00:13:53

gotcha

[alex]: 00:13:53

to communicate

[justin]: 00:13:55

and then did you pre write all of these texts or did they kind of

[justin]: 00:13:59

come in the moment how did how did all that work out

[alex]: 00:14:02

so i pre wrote the first contact from the demon lord to them

[justin]: 00:14:06

oh

[alex]: 00:14:06

you know with spelling out the

[justin]: 00:14:08

oh

[alex]: 00:14:09

prose of

[justin]: 00:14:09

oh

[alex]: 00:14:10

betraying your companions and

[justin]: 00:14:13

oh

[alex]: 00:14:13

receiving whatever tempting you no gift or treasure i was offering them but but over

[alex]: 00:14:18

the course of that

weyland]: 00:14:19

yeah

[alex]: 00:14:19

break they would text back and that was the teleconetically

weyland]: 00:14:23

uh

[alex]: 00:14:24

or

[justin]: 00:14:24

uh

[alex]: 00:14:24

telepathically communicating

[justin]: 00:14:25

h yeah

weyland]: 00:14:26

ah

[alex]: 00:14:26

so so that that was all

[justin]: 00:14:28

yeah

[alex]: 00:14:28

genera era that was all organic it was not prescripted

[justin]: 00:14:31

oh that's excellent so i think

[alex]: 00:14:32

h

[justin]: 00:14:33

i like this one particularly because you know we are all attached

[alex]: 00:14:37

yeah

[justin]: 00:14:37

to our phones by the hip or our computers

[alex]: 00:14:39

m

[justin]: 00:14:40

you know as it were

[alex]: 00:14:41

hm

[justin]: 00:14:41

and you have someone missed doing you real time

[alex]: 00:14:45

yep

[justin]: 00:14:45

there's your response and then there's a weight time it feels

[alex]: 00:14:49

hm

[justin]: 00:14:49

very real you know have you guys seen of course you know you probably have

[justin]: 00:14:54

deal or no dial right

[alex]: 00:14:55

sure yep

weyland]: 00:14:56

yeah

[justin]: 00:14:56

so there's the guy up in the booth who's coming up with whatever offer

[alex]: 00:15:00

oh

[justin]: 00:15:01

you know they have they have a software that

[alex]: 00:15:03

yes

[justin]: 00:15:03

comes up with exactly what he

[alex]: 00:15:06

yeah

[justin]: 00:15:06

needs to say but there's a guy up there as you see

[alex]: 00:15:08

hm

[justin]: 00:15:08

him moving around it's his job to sit up there

[alex]: 00:15:11

ah

[justin]: 00:15:11

look like he's writing stuff down picking up a phone and calling

[alex]: 00:15:16

yeah

[justin]: 00:15:17

but it is very immersive and it adds to the mistake of the game you

[alex]: 00:15:21

hm

[justin]: 00:15:21

know other than our computer spout out this number what do you think

[alex]: 00:15:25

yeah oh

[justin]: 00:15:26

so and i know this is this is very myopic it's very focused in on

[justin]: 00:15:31

one particular instance but i think this is a good kind of use case for

[justin]: 00:15:36

immersion how might you kind of replicate this in an in person setting

[alex]: 00:15:42

oh well i should say that that that that previous example we were all in

[alex]: 00:15:46

person but

[justin]: 00:15:47

oh wow

[alex]: 00:15:48

but

weyland]: 00:15:48

but

[justin]: 00:15:48

okay

weyland]: 00:15:48

you

[justin]: 00:15:49

so

weyland]: 00:15:49

also

[alex]: 00:15:49

you know

weyland]: 00:15:49

have a slack

[justin]: 00:15:50

gotcha

weyland]: 00:15:50

active

[justin]: 00:15:50

gotcha

[alex]: 00:15:51

we have a

weyland]: 00:15:51

okay

[alex]: 00:15:51

yeah we slack to communicate outside the game and what not but in this instance

[alex]: 00:15:54

i used it in the game but

[justin]: 00:15:56

excellent

weyland]: 00:15:56

smart

[alex]: 00:15:57

yeah so so

[justin]: 00:15:59

oh

[alex]: 00:15:59

if i understand your question

[justin]: 00:16:00

yeah

[alex]: 00:16:00

you're asking like in person how would you

[justin]: 00:16:04

well well

[alex]: 00:16:05

add to that

[justin]: 00:16:05

i guess yeah like i guess you answered it so you know and in my

[justin]: 00:16:09

mind i'm thinking okay in a break i don't want everyone looking at me you

[justin]: 00:16:13

know texting them all

[alex]: 00:16:14

hm

[justin]: 00:16:15

but i'm guessing you know everyone was going around eating some food talking for a

[justin]: 00:16:19

second they get a ping answer real quick put

[alex]: 00:16:21

yeah

[justin]: 00:16:21

their phone back right

[alex]: 00:16:22

i mean it was obvious everyone got a ping at once you know when i

[alex]: 00:16:25

sent

[justin]: 00:16:25

okay

[alex]: 00:16:25

out the first the first round but people you know when you have the right

[alex]: 00:16:31

set of players they also play the game um

[justin]: 00:16:34

yeah

[alex]: 00:16:34

and so

weyland]: 00:16:34

good

[alex]: 00:16:34

they weren't like

weyland]: 00:16:35

good

[alex]: 00:16:35

meta

[justin]: 00:16:36

ah

[alex]: 00:16:36

gaming outside

[justin]: 00:16:37

yes

[alex]: 00:16:37

you know but yeah you know it's funny one of the main challenges is actually

[alex]: 00:16:43

getting that imersive feeling when you're not me in person i

[justin]: 00:16:46

oh

[alex]: 00:16:47

much prefer the in person games because it's easier at least as a d from

[alex]: 00:16:53

my

[justin]: 00:16:54

ah

[alex]: 00:16:54

standpoint to to bring emersive

[justin]: 00:16:55

yeah

[alex]: 00:16:56

elements in i always view emersion through the lens of the five senses and

[justin]: 00:17:02

h

[alex]: 00:17:03

it's really

[justin]: 00:17:03

m

[alex]: 00:17:04

difficult to bring

[justin]: 00:17:06

yeah

[alex]: 00:17:06

that when everyone's sitting in you know different

[justin]: 00:17:08

yeah

[alex]: 00:17:09

houses

[justin]: 00:17:10

m

[alex]: 00:17:10

in front of a screen so yeah i don't know it's it's much easier i

[alex]: 00:17:16

think

[justin]: 00:17:17

ah

[alex]: 00:17:17

if you have it in person

weyland]: 00:17:19

yeah i agree and

[alex]: 00:17:21

oh

weyland]: 00:17:21

i think that opens up a

[alex]: 00:17:22

oh

weyland]: 00:17:23

you know an important

[alex]: 00:17:23

oh

weyland]: 00:17:24

question which is like which of the senses can you effect over the internet you

weyland]: 00:17:29

know

[alex]: 00:17:30

yeah

weyland]: 00:17:31

like i think sound and that's that's one that i've always had a hard time

weyland]: 00:17:34

with

[alex]: 00:17:35

hm

weyland]: 00:17:35

because like

[justin]: 00:17:36

oh

weyland]: 00:17:36

that's if you're

[justin]: 00:17:37

yeah

weyland]: 00:17:37

let's say

[alex]: 00:17:37

ah

weyland]: 00:17:38

you're using role twenty not everyone's good at like knowing how to likeupfload

[alex]: 00:17:42

oh yeah

weyland]: 00:17:43

some music

[justin]: 00:17:44

yeah

weyland]: 00:17:44

and things like that so i mean when you are i guess my question is

weyland]: 00:17:50

how often do you find yourself running a session just online and what do you

weyland]: 00:17:56

do in those cases

[alex]: 00:17:57

and well you got the wrong guest

[justin]: 00:18:01

oh

[alex]: 00:18:01

tonight for that because i

weyland]: 00:18:02

ah

[alex]: 00:18:02

don't think i've ever run a session on line because my daughter was born in

[alex]: 00:18:08

february of twenty ten so i already had a reason to drop out of my

[alex]: 00:18:12

weekly

[justin]: 00:18:12

yeah

[alex]: 00:18:12

d d and d

[justin]: 00:18:13

uh

[alex]: 00:18:13

games

weyland]: 00:18:14

yep

[alex]: 00:18:15

but then

weyland]: 00:18:15

yep

[alex]: 00:18:15

of course covid hit and so

[justin]: 00:18:16

ah

[alex]: 00:18:17

like

[justin]: 00:18:17

h

[alex]: 00:18:17

all

[justin]: 00:18:18

m

[alex]: 00:18:18

all the all the aftermath of that still

[justin]: 00:18:21

sure

[alex]: 00:18:21

peter dad so i ve partook in a few online sessions of d and d

[alex]: 00:18:28

but i never

[justin]: 00:18:28

yeah

[alex]: 00:18:28

deemed any

[justin]: 00:18:29

sure

[alex]: 00:18:29

of them

[justin]: 00:18:31

sure i guess maybe one question that can help all of us is you know

[justin]: 00:18:37

emersion really hard to kind of nail down and say like i mean it's easy

[justin]: 00:18:41

when you're oh that that was imersive but maybe the question we should ask is

[justin]: 00:18:46

what is not quote unquote immersion or immersive like what do we

weyland]: 00:18:51

i

[justin]: 00:18:51

constantly

weyland]: 00:18:51

like that

[justin]: 00:18:52

see that people do that doesn't actually move the needle maybe

[alex]: 00:18:57

hm well you know i'm almost a little hesitant to bring

[justin]: 00:19:01

oh

[alex]: 00:19:01

this up because i don't want

[justin]: 00:19:02

oh

[alex]: 00:19:03

to deter anyone from trying

[justin]: 00:19:05

m

[alex]: 00:19:05

to bring immersion in whatever form that that would take but and this can become

[alex]: 00:19:12

part of

[justin]: 00:19:13

m

[alex]: 00:19:13

the joke or the running gag and a game but

[justin]: 00:19:16

m yeah

[alex]: 00:19:16

you know there are many d ms where there's

[justin]: 00:19:19

yeah

[alex]: 00:19:20

one p c voice um and you know whether you're a

[justin]: 00:19:25

oh

[alex]: 00:19:25

dairy farmer or a library is the same voice but

[justin]: 00:19:29

oh

[alex]: 00:19:29

i

[justin]: 00:19:29

it's

[alex]: 00:19:29

mean

[justin]: 00:19:29

phil

[alex]: 00:19:29

like

[justin]: 00:19:29

again

[alex]: 00:19:29

i think yeah i think i think that you know there's

[justin]: 00:19:32

yeah

[alex]: 00:19:33

it's the right campaign for that but

[justin]: 00:19:34

yes

[alex]: 00:19:35

if you're you know if you're a d m and you don't want to do

[alex]: 00:19:39

that then it doesn't take i don't think it takes a whole lot of practice

[alex]: 00:19:44

or f to develop three unique voices and that actually goes a long way for

[alex]: 00:19:50

the investment i think you get the most bang out of your book when

[justin]: 00:19:52

m

[alex]: 00:19:52

you're doing that because as a d m you will be

[justin]: 00:19:55

yeah

[alex]: 00:19:56

voicing

[justin]: 00:19:56

yeah

[alex]: 00:19:56

different care actors and so

[justin]: 00:19:58

oh

[alex]: 00:19:58

you can just count on that as one of the skills you should probably develop

[alex]: 00:20:01

so yeah like that would break character or that would break immersion for some folks

[alex]: 00:20:08

around the table but again i don't want to

[justin]: 00:20:09

h

[alex]: 00:20:10

deter i don't

[justin]: 00:20:10

m

[alex]: 00:20:10

want to deter folks from trying

[justin]: 00:20:11

ye

[alex]: 00:20:12

so

weyland]: 00:20:12

yeah

[alex]: 00:20:12

you know

[justin]: 00:20:13

no

[alex]: 00:20:13

any effort should be appreciated by the party

[justin]: 00:20:16

ah

[alex]: 00:20:17

m

[justin]: 00:20:17

yeah

weyland]: 00:20:17

yeah

[justin]: 00:20:17

i agree yeah

[alex]: 00:20:18

hm

weyland]: 00:20:19

and honestly kind of talking to that point

[justin]: 00:20:21

yeah

weyland]: 00:20:21

justin

[alex]: 00:20:22

yeah

weyland]: 00:20:23

i think

[justin]: 00:20:23

yeah

weyland]: 00:20:23

that i think an

[alex]: 00:20:25

yeah

weyland]: 00:20:25

important aspect of immersion is

[alex]: 00:20:28

yeah

weyland]: 00:20:29

what it called i had the word in my head consistency

[alex]: 00:20:31

yeah

weyland]: 00:20:32

thank

[justin]: 00:20:32

yeah

weyland]: 00:20:32

you

[justin]: 00:20:33

ye

weyland]: 00:20:33

but

[alex]: 00:20:34

m yeah

weyland]: 00:20:34

because like

[justin]: 00:20:35

yeah

weyland]: 00:20:35

well i think it's consistency

[justin]: 00:20:36

oh

weyland]: 00:20:37

but then also occasional spikes of effort that's what i would put it because if

[justin]: 00:20:42

yeah

weyland]: 00:20:42

you're consistently playing

[justin]: 00:20:44

yeah

weyland]: 00:20:44

music at key moments like or at the start of your session those kind of

weyland]: 00:20:49

things

[justin]: 00:20:49

oh

weyland]: 00:20:49

are gonna help if you're consistently

[alex]: 00:20:51

hm

weyland]: 00:20:51

having some type of work like a landscape fantasy landscape or even an image an

weyland]: 00:20:58

artistic depiction of certain npcs then that's going to build in you know that unning

weyland]: 00:21:06

dialogue of like hey this is a real world that we need to pretend that

weyland]: 00:21:09

we're in you know

[alex]: 00:21:10

m

weyland]: 00:21:11

versus like doing that maybe in the first session or every like five sessions or

weyland]: 00:21:16

whatever then it's

[alex]: 00:21:17

hm

weyland]: 00:21:17

like it's going to be easy to get out of that because you're not having

weyland]: 00:21:21

the kind of the themes the art the whole vibe

[alex]: 00:21:24

yeah

weyland]: 00:21:25

yeah really hitting

[alex]: 00:21:26

hm

weyland]: 00:21:26

you you know

[alex]: 00:21:28

at's a that's a great point tanner and it reminds me of you know another

[alex]: 00:21:32

one of the senses you can build themes around is sound around different characters

[justin]: 00:21:38

ah

[alex]: 00:21:38

or different settings using the same

[justin]: 00:21:40

m

[alex]: 00:21:40

fantasy music or what not so that that is another thing that gets associated specifically

[alex]: 00:21:45

with that person

[justin]: 00:21:47

yeah

weyland]: 00:21:47

yeah

[alex]: 00:21:48

yeah

weyland]: 00:21:48

absolutely

[alex]: 00:21:49

m

[justin]: 00:21:50

so

[alex]: 00:21:51

m

[justin]: 00:21:52

naturally um being a d m as hard as tough and you know one of

[justin]: 00:21:57

our missions is to help make it easier so open conversation everyone um what top

[justin]: 00:22:05

of the line tools do you know of that would be just the tops in

[justin]: 00:22:10

immersion and then contrast that with what are some cheap or free tools

[alex]: 00:22:16

oh

[justin]: 00:22:16

that help immersion

[alex]: 00:22:17

m

[justin]: 00:22:18

a ton so

[alex]: 00:22:19

oh

[justin]: 00:22:20

full spectrum there

[alex]: 00:22:22

m

weyland]: 00:22:23

um

[justin]: 00:22:24

oh

weyland]: 00:22:25

m

[alex]: 00:22:25

well i think that so in terms of free

[justin]: 00:22:32

yeah

[alex]: 00:22:32

lots of people can or

weyland]: 00:22:34

yeah

[alex]: 00:22:34

d ms should be able

[justin]: 00:22:35

oh

[alex]: 00:22:35

to look around their house and you

[justin]: 00:22:36

yeah

[alex]: 00:22:36

can find a

[justin]: 00:22:37

ah

[alex]: 00:22:37

prop just

[justin]: 00:22:38

oh

[alex]: 00:22:38

of whatever and bringing a prop to the table and letting

[justin]: 00:22:41

yeah

[alex]: 00:22:41

you know the players actually touch and hold and

[justin]: 00:22:43

oh

[alex]: 00:22:44

everyone seeing the exact same thing i think that goes a long way

[justin]: 00:22:47

yeah

[alex]: 00:22:47

especially around puzzles actually so so well

[justin]: 00:22:50

oh

[alex]: 00:22:50

you know you might consider just like props that are easily found to be

[justin]: 00:22:56

i

[alex]: 00:22:56

one of those free things that hat's oppin about helps with

[justin]: 00:23:00

can

[alex]: 00:23:00

immersion

[justin]: 00:23:00

we can we maybe think of like like a quick example maybe a scenario or

[justin]: 00:23:05

something that actually happened again just kind of make it visual for the audience in

[justin]: 00:23:11

a way

[alex]: 00:23:11

yeah

weyland]: 00:23:12

yeah yeah

[alex]: 00:23:14

well one of my adventures

[justin]: 00:23:16

yeah

[alex]: 00:23:17

recently

weyland]: 00:23:18

oh

[alex]: 00:23:18

they came upon a magically locked box and i happened to have a metal box

[alex]: 00:23:24

that my wife

[justin]: 00:23:25

oh

[alex]: 00:23:25

store some jewelry in or what not and so i just described how it was

[alex]: 00:23:29

magically shimmering and they couldn't open it very easily and so they were passing

[justin]: 00:23:33

ye

[alex]: 00:23:33

around the box and thinking about different ways to get it open but you know

[alex]: 00:23:38

still had a tactile thing hold so i think that was

[justin]: 00:23:42

oh

[alex]: 00:23:43

t was very beneficial

[justin]: 00:23:45

i like that

weyland]: 00:23:46

yeah

[alex]: 00:23:46

hm

weyland]: 00:23:47

in one of the campaigns i was in that my cousin was running

[alex]: 00:23:51

oh

weyland]: 00:23:51

for the big main end boss batty he had it's silly but i

[alex]: 00:23:57

m

weyland]: 00:23:57

member it very well

[alex]: 00:23:58

m yeah

weyland]: 00:23:59

he had a giant not a giant but on the board it was giant it

weyland]: 00:24:03

was a squeezy toy for like a

[justin]: 00:24:05

yeah

weyland]: 00:24:05

child that looked like an octopus

[alex]: 00:24:07

m

weyland]: 00:24:08

and

[justin]: 00:24:09

yeah

weyland]: 00:24:09

and it was like it was like a sea god kind of thing so it

weyland]: 00:24:13

worked perfectly

[alex]: 00:24:14

yeah

weyland]: 00:24:15

and he basically he basically created

[alex]: 00:24:16

yeah

weyland]: 00:24:17

it around this toy

[justin]: 00:24:18

oh

weyland]: 00:24:18

because he's like this is what i got and

[alex]: 00:24:21

m

weyland]: 00:24:22

and it stuck in my head you know until this moment

[alex]: 00:24:24

hm

weyland]: 00:24:25

i was like oh this is sick even if it's a cartoonish

[alex]: 00:24:27

m

weyland]: 00:24:27

thing it didn't look really

[alex]: 00:24:28

oh

weyland]: 00:24:29

threatening at all but just

[justin]: 00:24:30

yeah

weyland]: 00:24:30

the size compared to our little minnie's

[justin]: 00:24:32

yeah

weyland]: 00:24:32

you know i thought it was great

[alex]: 00:24:35

that's awesome

[justin]: 00:24:35

wonderful

[alex]: 00:24:36

like a casoluchtoy

weyland]: 00:24:39

it was like it would basically

[alex]: 00:24:41

yeah

weyland]: 00:24:41

look like the cutest

[justin]: 00:24:42

yeah

weyland]: 00:24:42

little octopus

[alex]: 00:24:43

yeah

weyland]: 00:24:43

but then

[justin]: 00:24:44

yeah

weyland]: 00:24:44

you're like could you

[alex]: 00:24:45

m

weyland]: 00:24:45

imagine

[justin]: 00:24:46

yeah

weyland]: 00:24:46

if the sizes were exactly like that that

[justin]: 00:24:48

m

weyland]: 00:24:48

would be terrifying no matter

[alex]: 00:24:50

yeah

weyland]: 00:24:50

how cute and smily

[justin]: 00:24:51

m

weyland]: 00:24:51

it look

[justin]: 00:24:51

yeah

[alex]: 00:24:51

yeah yeah the best miniatures are

[justin]: 00:24:54

oh

[alex]: 00:24:54

the improvised ones for sure

[justin]: 00:24:56

hm

weyland]: 00:24:57

exactly

[alex]: 00:24:57

yeah

[justin]: 00:24:57

hm

[alex]: 00:24:58

that's

[justin]: 00:24:58

yeah

[alex]: 00:24:59

great

[justin]: 00:25:00

honestly that kind of brings up a whole can of worms about minnie's like whether

[justin]: 00:25:04

or not they are immersive or if they're crutch or escape goat and if they

[justin]: 00:25:10

are imersive how do you do them right

[alex]: 00:25:12

hm

[justin]: 00:25:12

what do you guys think

[alex]: 00:25:14

m

weyland]: 00:25:14

yeah i mean to

[alex]: 00:25:17

good

weyland]: 00:25:17

my to my earlier point about just being consistent i think manis are important for

weyland]: 00:25:24

the consistency aspect

[justin]: 00:25:25

m

weyland]: 00:25:26

you know because because you have

[justin]: 00:25:28

yeah

weyland]: 00:25:28

a space a player or or character rather and being able to see them on

weyland]: 00:25:33

that board or in front of you it's just a constant reminder that it's like

weyland]: 00:25:37

hey it's not me just operating some little lip that happens to have numbers attached

weyland]: 00:25:43

i'm like it's this character that i've built so

[justin]: 00:25:47

m

weyland]: 00:25:47

i think

[alex]: 00:25:47

m

weyland]: 00:25:47

it's i don't think it's as big as some people think because some people are

weyland]: 00:25:50

like oh it's so expensive

[justin]: 00:25:51

yeah

weyland]: 00:25:52

or anything but

[justin]: 00:25:52

yeah

weyland]: 00:25:52

it's like you can get some generic ones

[alex]: 00:25:56

hm

weyland]: 00:25:56

and like various types

[justin]: 00:25:58

yeah

weyland]: 00:25:58

and maybe you end up using the same ones for like various the same different

weyland]: 00:26:03

characters over the years but it's still better than just having like a little pan

weyland]: 00:26:08

or something

[alex]: 00:26:08

oh

weyland]: 00:26:09

you know

[alex]: 00:26:10

m

weyland]: 00:26:10

in my opinion

[alex]: 00:26:11

m yeah you know for years

[justin]: 00:26:14

oh

[alex]: 00:26:14

i was a complete theater of the mind purist

[justin]: 00:26:18

m

[alex]: 00:26:18

and you know i went out of my

[justin]: 00:26:20

m

[alex]: 00:26:20

way to find the right phrases and descriptive language to describe

[justin]: 00:26:25

yah

[alex]: 00:26:25

the most mundane things

[justin]: 00:26:26

h

[alex]: 00:26:26

to you know keep folks entertained since i only

[justin]: 00:26:28

yeah

[alex]: 00:26:28

had my words to paint this

[justin]: 00:26:29

hm

[alex]: 00:26:29

picture for them but the a few years ago we did introduce minnie's in the

[alex]: 00:26:39

form of lagos

[justin]: 00:26:39

yeah alex i think we might have lost

[alex]: 00:26:41

okay

[justin]: 00:26:41

you you're frozen

[alex]: 00:26:42

i wasn't sure if i should

weyland]: 00:26:43

yeah

[alex]: 00:26:44

continued speaking but

[justin]: 00:26:46

okay you're back

weyland]: 00:26:47

i can i

[alex]: 00:26:47

okay

weyland]: 00:26:48

can see you now

[justin]: 00:26:48

yeah

[alex]: 00:26:49

okay all right i'm not

weyland]: 00:26:51

m

[alex]: 00:26:51

sure how much you caught that but

weyland]: 00:26:52

m

[alex]: 00:26:52

i'll just i'll

weyland]: 00:26:52

yeah

[alex]: 00:26:52

start at the beginning of my

weyland]: 00:26:54

perfect

[justin]: 00:26:54

perfect

[alex]: 00:26:54

little so i was a theater of the mind purist for many years and i

[alex]: 00:27:00

looked up the language to paint as clear a picture for the party as possible

[alex]: 00:27:04

and you know just was able

weyland]: 00:27:06

hm

[alex]: 00:27:06

to use my words to describe the battle field in the layout

[justin]: 00:27:09

yeah

[alex]: 00:27:10

and then a few years ago we introduced

[justin]: 00:27:12

yeah

[alex]: 00:27:13

lego miniatures on a very generic

[justin]: 00:27:15

yeah

[alex]: 00:27:15

you know grid map and it was better it

[justin]: 00:27:19

yeah

[alex]: 00:27:19

was

weyland]: 00:27:19

uh

[alex]: 00:27:20

for that consistency

weyland]: 00:27:20

uh

[alex]: 00:27:21

reason

[justin]: 00:27:21

yah

[alex]: 00:27:21

you mentioned it was so much clear to everybody

[justin]: 00:27:24

oh

[alex]: 00:27:24

about the layout of the battle field and you can still use all that descriptive

[alex]: 00:27:28

language and tear the mind descript

[justin]: 00:27:30

ye

[alex]: 00:27:30

and so

weyland]: 00:27:31

m

[alex]: 00:27:32

i am a convert

[justin]: 00:27:33

oh

[alex]: 00:27:34

i do believe i do believe

[justin]: 00:27:35

h

[alex]: 00:27:35

that that minnie's are

[justin]: 00:27:37

yeah

[alex]: 00:27:37

are a good thing for the game yeah oh

weyland]: 00:27:40

yeah and and even what you said there about

[justin]: 00:27:43

ah

weyland]: 00:27:43

you know theater of the mind and making sure your language and your words were

weyland]: 00:27:47

impactful i don't want to discount

[justin]: 00:27:49

ah

weyland]: 00:27:50

that at all because i think

[alex]: 00:27:51

hm

weyland]: 00:27:51

some people rely too much on the props and the mines and things like that

[justin]: 00:27:56

oh

weyland]: 00:27:56

and they don't prepare

[justin]: 00:27:58

oh

weyland]: 00:27:58

their wording and their vocabulary as much as they could

[justin]: 00:28:02

oh

[alex]: 00:28:02

hm

weyland]: 00:28:02

and that is like some good language like a

[alex]: 00:28:05

m

weyland]: 00:28:06

nice paragraph written about a setting or to describe a new character or describe a

weyland]: 00:28:12

key moment that that can

[alex]: 00:28:14

hm

[justin]: 00:28:14

yeah

weyland]: 00:28:15

do so much and now if you tie that in with like an image that

weyland]: 00:28:18

you project on a screen and with their mines being present in stuff you know

weyland]: 00:28:24

that can only build on it but i think

[alex]: 00:28:26

hm

weyland]: 00:28:26

the cheapest and most effective way you can bring them in is just preparing what

weyland]: 00:28:31

you're going to say ahead of time you know

[alex]: 00:28:33

oh yeah yeah that's you know when i'm preparing a session i do i put

[alex]: 00:28:39

the font in italics and and whatever it's an italic is something that i will

[alex]: 00:28:43

read you know animatedly um to the grove

weyland]: 00:28:46

hm

[alex]: 00:28:46

but but it's all pre written and prescripted for those key moments like you said

[alex]: 00:28:51

huge

[justin]: 00:28:51

yeah

[alex]: 00:28:51

impact

[justin]: 00:28:52

yeah

weyland]: 00:28:52

hm

[justin]: 00:28:53

i definitely do the same thing and

[alex]: 00:28:54

oh

[justin]: 00:28:54

it also is nice when you do that you can couple it with those that

[justin]: 00:29:00

music from key moments

[alex]: 00:29:02

hm

[justin]: 00:29:02

kind of like we said i think tenor your you know what you said is

[justin]: 00:29:07

probably that the the underscore of tonight's episode just whatever you do if you do

[justin]: 00:29:13

it consistently and maybe build on it to to what you feel you and do

[justin]: 00:29:17

but again consistency your players are going to come to appreciate that and it will

[justin]: 00:29:21

help them kind of get in that role playing mode i think we're just about

[justin]: 00:29:26

out of time so let's leave the listener with one thing that they can try

[justin]: 00:29:32

each of us so think of one thing that you recommend them trying or doing

[justin]: 00:29:37

this week to work on immersing their players and themselves yeah

weyland]: 00:29:43

i'll go to give alex some time to think

[justin]: 00:29:46

perfect

[alex]: 00:29:46

yeah

weyland]: 00:29:46

but

[alex]: 00:29:47

yeah

[justin]: 00:29:48

oh

weyland]: 00:29:48

what i would say

[justin]: 00:29:49

yeah

weyland]: 00:29:49

is kind of make like right out what your ideal right set up would be

weyland]: 00:29:56

and i'm not saying like ideal like oh

[justin]: 00:29:57

m

weyland]: 00:29:57

matt mercer

[justin]: 00:29:58

yeah

weyland]: 00:29:58

you know or

[alex]: 00:29:59

oh

weyland]: 00:29:59

to mention to any kind of set but i'm saying

[alex]: 00:30:01

yah

weyland]: 00:30:01

like what would your realistic yet ideal

[justin]: 00:30:05

oh

weyland]: 00:30:05

set up and then from there kind of work backwards be like okay what could

weyland]: 00:30:10

i do week to week that isn't too much effort you know but can still

weyland]: 00:30:16

give the punch that i'm lookin for and it's better to do that versus kind

weyland]: 00:30:21

of working from the bottom up because i think

[justin]: 00:30:24

hm

weyland]: 00:30:24

that you'll be able to be more creative that way and look at your resources

weyland]: 00:30:29

more istically but also

[alex]: 00:30:31

oh

weyland]: 00:30:31

creatively

[justin]: 00:30:32

excellent and then

[alex]: 00:30:33

nice

[justin]: 00:30:34

alex i'll go and then you can finish up and then also tell people how

[justin]: 00:30:38

to find you support you and see what you're up to after you respond but

[justin]: 00:30:42

i would

[alex]: 00:30:42

yeah

[justin]: 00:30:43

say d m make sure you put yourself on the sacrificial chopping block if anyone

[justin]: 00:30:49

is going to be embarrassed it better be you because you're going to get your

[justin]: 00:30:54

players buying by doing those funny voices or trying that new thing or putting a

[justin]: 00:31:01

puzzle out there that might not make sense if if you kind of sacrifice yourself

[justin]: 00:31:07

your players won't feel

[alex]: 00:31:07

oh

[justin]: 00:31:08

so self conscious and they'll buy into the collective experience in my in my opinion

[justin]: 00:31:15

m

weyland]: 00:31:16

oh

[alex]: 00:31:16

i dig that

[justin]: 00:31:17

yah

[alex]: 00:31:17

that's good advice i have

[justin]: 00:31:20

oh

[alex]: 00:31:20

i have two for you

[justin]: 00:31:22

perfect

weyland]: 00:31:22

perfect

[alex]: 00:31:23

so so i would say just

[justin]: 00:31:26

oh

[alex]: 00:31:26

this week some time

[justin]: 00:31:27

yeah oh

[alex]: 00:31:27

before your our game night go out and buy a buy a bag of almonds

[alex]: 00:31:35

and some olive oil and some spices and go ahead

weyland]: 00:31:38

love it

[alex]: 00:31:38

and find a recipe for spice nuts and

[justin]: 00:31:41

m

[alex]: 00:31:41

call it something

[justin]: 00:31:42

yeah

[alex]: 00:31:42

pertinent to your game

[justin]: 00:31:43

yeah

[alex]: 00:31:43

and your game

[justin]: 00:31:44

yeah

[alex]: 00:31:44

setting that that week it is very straightforward and will

[justin]: 00:31:49

yeah

[alex]: 00:31:49

create positive memories and immersion

[justin]: 00:31:51

m

[alex]: 00:31:51

at your game table

[justin]: 00:31:53

yeah

[alex]: 00:31:54

the next thing i'd recommend

[justin]: 00:31:55

yeah

[alex]: 00:31:56

would be to go ahead and visit game play candles dot um and purchase

weyland]: 00:32:00

yes

[alex]: 00:32:00

one of our fantastic d and d inspired scented

[justin]: 00:32:04

ye

[alex]: 00:32:04

candles we have five cents at the moments that are specific to different environments

[justin]: 00:32:09

oh

[alex]: 00:32:10

and different lasses

[justin]: 00:32:11

right

[alex]: 00:32:11

that that go along with d and d and we have many many more cents

[alex]: 00:32:16

on the horizon

[justin]: 00:32:17

m

[alex]: 00:32:17

that will be coming out

[justin]: 00:32:18

yeah

[alex]: 00:32:18

in different quarters throughout twenty twenty three so

weyland]: 00:32:21

yeah

[alex]: 00:32:22

yeah if not that then at least check us out at instagram

[justin]: 00:32:26

oh

[alex]: 00:32:26

and tik tok at game play candles and we'd love that support and

[justin]: 00:32:32

ah

[alex]: 00:32:32

by the way all your listeners if they use

[justin]: 00:32:34

oh

[alex]: 00:32:34

better dem all capitals

[justin]: 00:32:36

oh

[alex]: 00:32:36

in those spaces if they use better d m at as a code durin check

[alex]: 00:32:41

out at our website they'll get a fifteen per cent discount

[justin]: 00:32:44

yeah

[alex]: 00:32:44

on all of our products

weyland]: 00:32:46

o golden love

[alex]: 00:32:47

oh

weyland]: 00:32:47

that

[justin]: 00:32:48

yes

weyland]: 00:32:49

also also for you listeners i'm looking at the website right now and

[alex]: 00:32:53

m oh

weyland]: 00:32:54

one the websitesfrsheek

[justin]: 00:32:54

oh

weyland]: 00:32:55

i love the

[alex]: 00:32:56

yeah

weyland]: 00:32:56

fire

[justin]: 00:32:56

oh

weyland]: 00:32:56

kind of

[alex]: 00:32:57

thank you

weyland]: 00:32:58

and the banner that's wonderful

[alex]: 00:32:59

yeah

[justin]: 00:32:59

oh

weyland]: 00:33:00

touch

[alex]: 00:33:01

m

weyland]: 00:33:01

second

[alex]: 00:33:02

yeah

weyland]: 00:33:02

i think that the candles they're very nice

[justin]: 00:33:04

yeah

weyland]: 00:33:04

i think that there's i don't know maybe a few years ago

[justin]: 00:33:09

ye

weyland]: 00:33:10

fantasy in being nerves was seen is kind of gaudy

[justin]: 00:33:13

yeah

weyland]: 00:33:13

in certain ways

[justin]: 00:33:14

m

weyland]: 00:33:14

but

[alex]: 00:33:15

hm

weyland]: 00:33:15

i feel like these are very cheek

[alex]: 00:33:16

oh

[justin]: 00:33:17

hm

weyland]: 00:33:17

and i

[alex]: 00:33:17

yeah

weyland]: 00:33:17

love that

[alex]: 00:33:18

thank you we appreciate that we're going for the sheik

[justin]: 00:33:21

eh

[alex]: 00:33:21

premium look and

[justin]: 00:33:22

ah

[alex]: 00:33:22

you

weyland]: 00:33:22

yes

[alex]: 00:33:22

will make that impact if you light one of these up on

[justin]: 00:33:25

yeah

[alex]: 00:33:25

your game table

[justin]: 00:33:26

exactly

weyland]: 00:33:27

m

[alex]: 00:33:27

hm

[justin]: 00:33:27

thank you so much for being here alex also tanner alex did send us some

[justin]: 00:33:33

samples so you and i got to get together and light some of those up

[alex]: 00:33:35

ye

weyland]: 00:33:36

what

[justin]: 00:33:36

um yes

[alex]: 00:33:37

oh

weyland]: 00:33:37

that's amazing

[justin]: 00:33:37

he sent us the

weyland]: 00:33:38

thanks

[justin]: 00:33:38

five

weyland]: 00:33:39

alex

[justin]: 00:33:39

candle sample so

[alex]: 00:33:40

sure

[justin]: 00:33:41

i think the elvan forest gosh i forget the name of the elvan forest

[alex]: 00:33:45

yeah

[justin]: 00:33:46

one was probably my favorite um

[alex]: 00:33:48

hm

weyland]: 00:33:48

m

[justin]: 00:33:48

but anyways thank you again for joining us i uh in conclusion listener you got

[justin]: 00:33:53

to immerse your planers and to do that you got to try everything we say

[justin]: 00:33:57

listen to our podcasts go to dungeon candles dot com i hope i said that

[justin]: 00:34:01

right

weyland]: 00:34:01

game play candles dot com

[justin]: 00:34:02

game play candles

[alex]: 00:34:03

gave yeah

[justin]: 00:34:04

gosh i should have ritten that

[alex]: 00:34:05

uh

[justin]: 00:34:05

go to game play candles

[alex]: 00:34:06

uh

[justin]: 00:34:06

dot com

[alex]: 00:34:07

uh

[justin]: 00:34:08

either way

[alex]: 00:34:09

h ah

[justin]: 00:34:09

if you try these things you're going to e a better dam we're going to

[justin]: 00:34:12

be back next week with another amazing episode thanks again alex

[alex]: 00:34:16

thank

[justin]: 00:34:16

listener

[alex]: 00:34:16

you

[justin]: 00:34:16

until next week let's go ahead and roll initiative i